[Trixareforkids]

Seriously you ignored the rest of the post calling you out on your basically admitting that you would be willing to DECEIVE a woman (that you want to be FWB when you do not).. .

But then when the topic was men(people) using "charm" to mislead, you come back and blame the "charmed" for actually believing the "lines" (aka lies). In a flirtation and/or courtship, especially in the circumstances I described you are not going to say - hey that was a fun interaction - so was any of it true (serious) or are you just f'ing with my head?



Then you get P.O.'d with Motorguy and hide behind the false claim that your post/thread was about "friends with benefits", when it is quite clear that you are willing to lie to women and claim FWB when what you want is essentially an unpaid hooker, or more accurately several unpaid hookers. (because if you are willing to lie to women to get them to sleep with you, I would not even consider that even a legit F buddy .

I would repeat the question from atskitty2 at the end of this post. . .

Holy Hanna Justice, I think you're reading into this WAY too much. From all that's been said he's just looking for a friendly romp partner, not a thing wrong with that, there's plenty of women out there. You don't have to do full disclosure for that, just as long as you're not leading someone on and I haven't gotten the feel that that's the direction he's going in at all.

[Justice]

Holy Hanna Justice, I think you're reading into this WAY too much. From all that's been said he's just looking for a friendly romp partner, not a thing wrong with that, there's plenty of women out there. You don't have to do full disclosure for that, just as long as you're not leading someone on and I haven't gotten the feel that that's the direction he's going in at all.

haha Trix, but reading through the entire thread including your comments (including your good definitions in #18), it keeps coming back to Archer trying to claim that he want to mislead the women and trying to see no difference between FWB and FB/ONS. And to ask whether he can wait to disclose that he has no interest in even being friends until after he gets a woman to sleep with him.... to blame the "swept" (off her feet) for the action of the "sweeper/charmer"..... and to say

as long as I'm not straight up lying to someone, I have a right to pursue it.

And this comment seems clear to me that if telling the truth won't get him what he wants, then he won't tell the truth:

I think that straight up telling a girl "I want us to use each other for sex" is a quick journey of no return to the creeper blacklist pile in 99% of cases.

and

What I personally have done in the past is tell a girl "I have no rules. I'm not expecting anything, but I'm ready for everything."

... when nope you are not "ready for anything" - you are only ready to get laid.

See Jen's comment:

I do think this is going a bit far. No one deserves to be mistreated, no matter their misconceptions, just like no one deserves to be murdered because they were dumb enough to put themselves at risk. We also have to be careful with what we classify as "lack of control."

Which gets the response:

It is not on me to carry the weight of someone else's possibly undiagnosed insanity on my shoulders

... buy for now I have to get back to work . . .

[Trixareforkids]

Sorry Justice, but I think you're stringing together a bunch of comments together and reading something that isn't there.

[Motorguy]

I can never understand why friends with benefits simply do not become boyfriend and girlfriend, what is the difference?

Well I had a FWB before we both didn't want a boy friend or a girl friend relationship and if i dated her. I would have never meant my wife so it all work out for both of us. I meant my sole mate she mean her's. We are both still married and very happily with kids. We still friends to this day, all we want was more then going home and masturbating we gave each other release without strings attach.I hope this answer your question MsLorr.

[Justice]

Sorry Justice, but I think you're stringing together a bunch of comments together and reading something that isn't there.

I am reading what has been written and quoting. Gasp.

He11.. YOU, Jen, Motorguy and others have posted to try to get Archer to 1. understand the difference and 2. to point out the importance of honesty and he keeps trying to justify evasiveness or misleading


(edited)

[Archer]

Justice, I didn't respond to your post because:

a) There is nothing in this world that requires me to
b) There is nothing in that post that is worth responding to

Why bother with someone who is basically calling me a straight up liar? Your version of "complete and utter disclosure of everything, and anything less is lying" is not the universal moral truth, and I am under no obligation to respond to it as such.

If you would read my various posts, you would see that I started with little to no understanding of the difference, and have mentioned at various times how these perspectives have helped me differentiate, to avoid inadvertently hurting someone in the future, but not to accept responsibility for all of their actions

You laid down the rules for what you think is lying based on your experiences, which have nothing to do with me.

If a guy and a girl met in a bar, and the man was charming, seduced the woman, and brought her back to his place, had sex, parted ways, there is no obligation from either party for anything.

Trix seems to be the only one on spot with my personal line of thinking that the person who is seeking more information/security should be the one asking for it. If it is not their responsibility to ask for it, then it is even less my responsibility to provide it. I am allowed to enter an interaction not even fully knowing where it might lead, or what I might want with that particular person.

However, in your robotic world, I would walk up each woman I meet with a "Hi, I would like to have sex with you" or "Hi, I would like for us to get married". There is no room for seduction, charm, suave, the things that all of us crave in your scenario. And anything else to you is straight up lying.

Trix is right, you're really seeing a lot of things that aren't there, and you aren't reading the things that are. I won't respond to any more of your posts for a while, it seems to just be feeding some kind of fire.

Take care.

[effy2014]

I'm not surprised that a thread such as this can create heated discourse. A FWB relationship seems great in theory but very hard to pull off in practice. A person that you feel comfortable enough having sex probably has other characteristics that would make him or her boyfriend/girlfriend material. Even if both "agreed" to the arrangement, could you blame either for falling in like or love after a few great sessions in the sack? Who wouldn't look for signs that the other is feeling the same way?

Full disclosure at the beginning seems essential. But I wouldn't blame someone for "violating" the contract at any stage. Feelings are, after all, feelings. They are hard to control no matter the good intentions at the start. That's why I prefer my intimacy to develop as a natural next step in a potentially loving relationship.

[Trixareforkids]

I am not picking a fight, I actually feel as if I'm jumping in to diffuse one. And my reasons for that are as follows.
1 - Selfish reason: There aren't that many men on here, and I feel that he's one that's good at open/honest discussion. His age gives him a different perspective than those closer to our own and I like getting that perspective in the mix.
2 - I did not at all feel what you were feeling and felt the need to point out that we had read ALL the same things and yet didn't see it the same at all.
2 - It really does feel to me that you cherry picked the comments that proved the conclusion you'd drawn "WOW - claiming FWB when you will lie and mislead??" and felt the need to bold, which shows strong emotion.

If you did not feel what I was feeling in regards to PhrendlyPhil you could have called me out on it and stated your case.

My case for feeling differently than you here is that at no time did I find Archer's comments disrespectful to women in general. He threw his situation out here for advice from US, he took in that advice and thoughtfully and honestly replied to it. He has stated here or elsewhere that his attitudes about women have evolved over time and he appears to be genuinely interested in the advice that's been given here. How much of that advice he will put into practice is a complete unknown, but from his attitude here and on all the other posts he's made, nothing has led me to believe that despite wanting to get some would he intentionally mislead someone in that pursuit.

[Archer]

You don't have to do full disclosure for that, just as long as you're not leading someone on and I haven't gotten the feel that that's the direction he's going in at all.

Bingo

[jen1447]

I suspect this thread's going the way of the Chauvanism thread before long, but frankly Archer you're being a bit patronizing yourself. Of course you have no requirement to reply to anything you don't like, but why on earth did you come to a women's forum seeking women's advice if not to consider women's opinions - even the ones you don't like? And I'm sorry but saying that nothing Justice said is "worth responding to" is just rude and equally insulting as anything else that's been uttered here today, if a bit more passive-aggressively.

I don't like that she's taking the brunt of the blame here. You deserve plenty yourself for not playing nice. She may be passionate about her arguments, but you asked for them.