[Claret]

From the Criminal Code of Canada (basically the same in the States although some of the definitions can change from State to State. I'm not certain about other countries). What this really all says, is that if a person is coerced into having sex that doesn't mean consent has clearly been given.

Consent must be clearly given every time people engage in sexual contact.

A woman has the legal right to change her mind about having sex at any point of sexual contact. If her partner does not stop at the time she changes her mind, this is sexual assault.

In 1992 a new law was passed that defines "consent" as voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity with someone. It is popularly known as the "NO MEANS NO" law.

Importantly, the law recognizes that there are certain situations that make giving true voluntary agreement questionable. Such situations include if the person wanting sex with you is in a position of trust or in a position of power or authority over you. For example, teachers or bosses have this sort of position, since they have a say over what grade you get, or if you get to keep your job or will be promoted. The law says that you are the only person who can give permission for yourself. Your boyfriend, father, husband, employer etc. cannot give permission on your behalf. The law says you have the right to stop the activity at any time and just because you agreed to one activity, (i.e. kissing) does not mean you agree to the next thing (i.e. taking your clothes off) . The law also says that you can indicate your non-agreement by what you do (your conduct). This means that a woman doesn't have to say "NO" in order to have communicated non-consent.

The following is the Canadian Criminal Code on consent.

Meaning of "Consent"
from the Criminal Code of Canada


273.1 (1) Subject to subsection (2) and subsection 265(3), "consent" means, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question.

Where no consent obtained
(2) No consent is obtained, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, where
(a) the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant;
(b) the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity;
(c) the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority;
(d) the complainant expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to engage in the activity; or
(e) the complainant, having consented to engage in sexual activity, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity.

Subsection (2) not limiting
(3) Nothing in subsection (2) shall be construed as limiting the circumstances in which no consent is obtained.
1992, c. 38, s. 1.

Where belief in consent not a defence
273.2 It is not a defence to a charge under section 271, 272 or 273 that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the activity that forms the subject-matter of the charge, where
(a) the accused's belief arose from the accused's
(i) self-induced intoxication, or
(ii) recklessness or wilful blindness; or
(b) the accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known to the accused at the time, to ascertain that the complainant was consenting.

And the following from Clark University:
Rape / Sexual Assault
Although the legal definition of rape varies from state to state, rape is generally defined as forced or nonconsensual sexual contact.

Rape and/or sexual assault is forced, manipulated, or coerced sexual contact by a stranger, friend or acquaintance. It is an act of aggression and power combined with some form of sex. A person is forced into sexual contact through verbal coercion, threats, physical restraint, and/or physical violence. Consent is not given.

Rape is also a legal term that is defined in Massachusetts by three elements:

•Penetration of ANY orifice by ANY object,
•Force or threat of force, or
•Sexual contact against the will of the victim.
Consent cannot be given (legally) if a person is impaired, intoxicated, drugged, underage, mentally challenged, unconscious, or asleep

So you can see it really covers a broad spectrum of elements.

[effy2014]

Oh,, I saw you were talking about rape here,, I'll be brief,,, rape isn't really about sex at all,, it's about the physical dominance and humiliation of a woman, even if you find yourself in a sexual situation with her, if she says NO,,, no should still mean no..

The reason that we talk about the "lack of consent" is to illustrate that rape isn't just an attacker picking a random woman at knife-point and forcing her to have sex. For this discussion I will call it "traditional rape". I fully agree that traditional rape is about power, violence and humiliation. But that is only one form of rape.

When you understand rape to be sexual activity without consent, you envision a number of scenarios that do not involve any violence whatsoever. The drunk coed having sex at the frat party. Badgering your partner, not accepting the first 100 times he or she said no -- and then pouncing the moment she lets her guard down. Putting drugs in her drink and taking her home to have sex. We can all imagine hundreds of scenarios. No traditional violence is used but nonetheless there is coercion and the lack of consent.

Sex without consent is rape. Too many people (and this is not directed to you Patti) think otherwise. It is too easy to dismiss the victim and find reason to excuse the attacker. She shouldn't have gotten drunk. She should have been stronger in her no. She should have screamed. She shouldn't have worn that outfit to the frat party. Boys will be boys. They were just trying to have fun. Yet, the victim will suffer the same humiliation, horror, PTSD just as if her attacker held a knife and rapped her in an alley.

[Patti-here]

The reason that we talk about the "lack of consent" is to illustrate that rape isn't just an attacker picking a random woman at knife-point and forcing her to have sex. For this discussion I will call it "traditional rape". I fully agree that traditional rape is about power, violence and humiliation. But that is only one form of rape.

When you understand rape to be sexual activity without consent, you envision a number of scenarios that do not involve any violence whatsoever. The drunk coed having sex at the frat party. Badgering your partner, not accepting the first 100 times he or she said no -- and then pouncing the moment she lets her guard down. Putting drugs in her drink and taking her home to have sex. We can all imagine hundreds of scenarios. No traditional violence is used but nonetheless there is coercion and the lack of consent.

Sex without consent is rape. Too many people (and this is not directed to you Patti) think otherwise. It is too easy to dismiss the victim and find reason to excuse the attacker. She shouldn't have gotten drunk. She should have been stronger in her no. She should have screamed. She shouldn't have worn that outfit to the frat party. Boys will be boys. They were just trying to have fun. Yet, the victim will suffer the same humiliation, horror, PTSD just as if her attacker held a knife and rapped her in an alley.

Yes I agree with you,, a female should never, ever feel like she did something wrong, and brought it on herself.

[effy2014]

Men can also be raped. Once scenario from the military was an enlisted man being forced to have sex with his superior officer (a woman) under the threat of poor performance reviews. Unwanted foreplay with a woman can cause an erection, even against a man's will. Women can be sexual predators and it's probably easier to get away with -- who would believe a man didn't want to have sex?

CNN reported that, in 2012, the FBI's Uniform Crime Report made a significant stride by redefining rape as: "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." Under that definition, just like the Canadian law or the Mass. law reported by Claret, it is not hard to imagine that men can also be victims.

[Patti-here]

K,, let's not beat me up because I don't understand how women can rape men,, it's something I've never heard or read about,, however I'd see it as an act of desperation rather than violence,, just saying...

[Claret]

Just as an aside here, working with critical care patients (head trauma), men with no cognitive brain function and total paralysis can have erections during nursing care.

[Patti-here]

Just as an aside here, working with critical care patients (head trauma), men with no cognitive brain function and total paralysis can have erections during nursing care.

Men also have erections in their sleep because they have to pee lol...

[Trixareforkids]

however I'd see it as an act of desperation rather than violence,, just saying...

Not beating you up, but you're asking questions that many others probably have, so we're attempting to answer those questions.

As to women being more desperate than violent, where do you think the men's violence stems from? I'd say that in SOME cases at least it IS desperation. I certainly believe that the guy that attempted to rape me was desperate and that had we been in a more secluded place his desperation would likely have turned more violent. I also feel there's a difference between physical force and violence. You can restrain someone in a non-violent way and I think more "traditional" rapes are perpetrated using physical force than actual violence. I agree with you that violence has nothing to do with sex, violence is wishing to inflict pain/damage. Penetrative rape is about the sex/release they receive but that only requires enough physical force to get done what you want to get done and can cause very little or NO physical damage. Violence on the other hand is ABOUT causing physical damage.

And a woman can find many ways to physically restrain a man. I would also point out that there are woman/woman rapes and man/man rapes of both the 'traditional' and non-consensual types.

[effy2014]

Never meant to beat you up at all. Just trying to spread the word and your comment was a good springboard. You are one of the good people.

[effy2014]

Trix, this was a great thread to start. I think it opened up a good discussion. I hope that there is more. Kudos.