[Stillness]

Thanks CW. I think that's a good question, because I'm not completely cool with the fact that I'm circumcised. Even more so because my father got circumcised in his preteens/early teens because he decided it was what he wanted. He read the covenant God made with Abraham and wanted in. He told me that he didn't realize until after the fact that he had made a mistake. So I've wondered why he had mine cut.

On the flip side, in america we have a fascination with american football. It's considered manly. Hundreds of thousands of injuries have occurred from that game resulting in maiming, paralyzation, death, brain damage, and a bunch of other harm. More guys than not that I meet that have played that game have something wrong with them, it seems. Parents sign kids up for this all the time. The risks compared to circumcision are astronomical. Are those parents negligent?

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I'm not completely cool with the fact that I'm circumcised

I think one of the biggest issues for a man "in my opinion" is his teenage years and early 20's. Women can be very cutting (op word huh). Having had multiple or a few partners, to "some" there is a difference and that difference reflects whether or not they go back for seconds.

Sounds callous I know. But being my age, those girl talks in the 20's I remember well. I am convinced therefore, that there were guys back then that felt in-adequate or should I say "different" and it was of no choice of their own. Hence my comments of who has the right to make this decision in reality. You were born that way.

But it's life and this has been going on forever, so it makes sense what ever our brains are programmed to or not programmed to, a decision will be made on anything.


The only conclusion I can make of your Father is whilst he regretted it, it was based on what he read and that is his belief and so, it continues down the line.

That's also an interesting take, re football. I agree, at some point in time they all retire, with injuries just as singers get throat cancer.. You have to the pose the question of how seriously you take things in life, is the " all in moderation rule" correct therefore.

I'm not talking about risks. Hell I am a risk taker and a half. But those "kids" more than likely LOVED the game from the inset and wanted to play it. Parents see sports as excersise they see I think, also confidence building. So really a simular thing. What their brain is wired to and acknowledges from what they were taught. Did they research past players of all time, what are the risks? I'd say not.

Is it then fair to really again state that we as kids learn from our parents and so, they did from theirs. Our brains are then "taught" by our parents of what they were taught and therefore believe including what they "believe"

Some, choose to go against what they were taught, others believe that if their parents did or believed than so should they..

[effy2014]

As parents, we make a plethora of decisions which can and do affect the current and future life of the child. I did (and still do) what I believed was in the best interest of the children and the family. So, to answer CW's question, I absolutely had the legal right and ability to make the decision whether to circumcise my sons. Once I made the decision, I never thought twice about it.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Is America more into "legality" than Australia, I wonder.

Often I honestly get lost in some threads as you all talk about legalities.

I think every parent does what they believe is right for their child or should and that's beautiful. I also believe that they are influenced from their own up-bringing as to the choices they make as Adults.

I don't think honestly there is a right or wrong on circumcising a child. Though if I had an opinion, it would be not to, for one reason only, that is because they were born that way and I see it as "man" who has changed the thought pattern or am I wrong, someone said something about the Bible and contents but there again, I don't believe in the Bible as I believe again, man has changed it over and over through the course of time though I do believe in God.

And, yes, I know this is not a thread on spiritual belief

My only thoughts are to the men. When they are of age and what their thoughts are on it, whether they found it to be something this wished did not occur.

That I guess brings a question into it again of Parents explanations and discussions which to me starts the ball rolling all over again for the next generation.

[Motorguy]

Is America more into "legality" than Australia, I wonder.

Often I honestly get lost in some threads as you all talk about legalities.

I think every parent does what they believe is right for their child or should and that's beautiful. I also believe that they are influenced from their own up-bringing as to the choices they make as Adults.

I don't think honestly there is a right or wrong on circumcising a child. Though if I had an opinion, it would be not to, for one reason only, that is because they were born that way and I see it as "man" who has changed the thought pattern or am I wrong, someone said something about the Bible and contents but there again, I don't believe in the Bible as I believe again, man has changed it over and over through the course of time though I do believe in God.

And, yes, I know this is not a thread on spiritual belief

My only thoughts are to the men. When they are of age and what their thoughts are on it, whether they found it to be something this wished did not occur.

That I guess brings a question into it again of Parents explanations and discussions which to me starts the ball rolling all over again for the next generation.

Well yes this is all true CW it's something the parents need to make this decision. Not some kind of law or religions belief. But this is still practice in the U.S where 60% of the young males are still circumcised to this day. But like you was saying the child is born with this foreskin.But cancer researches have determined men who not been circumcised have a higher risk of penile cancer. So with that being the case removing the foreskin could be a precaution from this type of cancer it's a thought.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I know I'm going off topic a bit.

Yes, anything that can assist in preventing ultimately death is food for thought. But then, smoking, drinking, over working, being way to involved with sports/health and fitness resulting in a heart-attack, which happens often, all lead to the same problem..

But, there you can make your own decisions at the end of the day. This situation you can not what, 90% of the time? As, the decision is made by an Adult.

Again, don't get me wrong I am on both fences where a parent has the right to make that decision for their child..

Merely again re-uterating I guess that this is not a decision that can be made for the most part, by the person involved and that makes it different. Where taking risks for health are concerned.

Not much more I could add so shouldn't

[effy2014]

CW -- great new avatar picture!!

I have but two comments. In the US, the Center for Disease control has reported an increase in the number of circumcisions over the last decade. Broken down by race, white non-Hispanics had a circumcision rate of between 88-90% in the period 1999-2010, African Americans were at 73-75% and Hispanics at 42-45%. If, as suggested, there is a groundswell of men who are displeased with their parents' choice, why would they continue to make the same choices? If men did not want to be circumcised, the practice would cease over a generation. Yet, the rates in the US are increasing.

Second, the timing of the procedure is important. Circumcision posses less risk, less healing time and better cosmetic results when done as an infant. Parents consent to medical treatments all of the time which "alter" what we born with, including cosmetic surgeries, most of them with greater risk then circumcision. As Still points out, we also agree to activities that have medical risks.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Morning Effy, thank you

20 year span How many 20 year old guys have had children, how many were boys, what percentage is from the new generation?

Just making an observation .

You know Effy, as I said, I am merely and honestly interested but probably will never find out, how many guys that were circumcised did it because their parents did, a natural decision, non researched and then decided upon and how many of those boys as they became a man, resented their parents for making that decision.

I understand that as an infant you don't remember either and that has to be comforting immensely for a parent, when a baby cries our heart breaks and that it's not a huge risk, nor a lot done really and "again" it's a choice that I don't begrudge any parent making either way.

I just believe that if we were to conduct a different poll, one that was not scientific to produce facts and figures but one on mental health, emotions or even just a survey, how many men would put their hands up claiming they wish that they weren't..

So there is no argument with me, more curiousity. Stillness has already stated he wished he wasn't if I read that correctly and that his own Father also, yet, his Father went ahead anyway.

I'm not suggesting people follow sheep persay but we do take what our parents taught us/did and they before, as I stated. So this goes back a long, long way where in my opinion one day, it was suggested as a way to keep the penis clean, healthy. It's a private part you can't keep washing it for a little boy as he no longer becomes a little boy for him He has to do it himself. Well in the event he doesn't this is the best thing and so parents agreed and have been doing it ever since. It's a man made suggestion from some time back that has continued.

Can you see where I am coming from? Taking religion aside, you boys weren't born circumcised, how many died because they weren't?

It's funny, honestly. When I was a kid I wanted my ears pierced badly. My Father refused. He said " If you were meant to have holes in your ears you would have been born with them". I thought that was the most stupidest argument of all times. Now I am basically quoting him. See what I mean?

[Stillness]

If I was a Jew, I would have absolutely no problem with circumcision and reconciling that aspect of my faith with the world around me. It's obvious to me why God told them to do it. My regrets are because I am one of those people mentioned earlier that is really into things being natural and trying to exist in a natural state. Absent a requirement for it, I'd prefer things be left alone.

At the same time, we weren't born with immunity to certain diseases, but we take shots for them. I do believe that circumcision serves as a similar protection. For all I know it's saved me or my wife from disease. My penis works well and is not disfigured - at least not in my eyes or my wife's (who told me that I have a "pretty **"). So I'm not really sweating it that hard.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Call me a sceptic When did God tell man to do this, was it in the first publication that no one ever really found or the one that Man mucked around with and wrote I suggest changed and added. Call me a sceptic : )

But again, this is all I am on about and I better shut up or else I'll create havoc ...

At the same time, we weren't born with immunity to certain diseases, but we take shots for them.

No and this is true and to me this is why man and woman lived very short lives, 40 was usual, now it's 85 because man has come in with medicine and the like to prolong our lives longer.

Any one would think by reading all of this I hate men : )

Soooo not true.