[Little]

I had to abandon my googling of "botched circumcisions" due to photographic evidence. Defending my position isn't more important than my mental stability Levity in the face of adversity.

Calling it one of a kind is just not true, though. Just off the top of my head, David Reimer is an interesting case of a botched circumcision and a LOT of thread-unrelated issues concerning the fluidity of gender identity (fun reading on a rainy day!) That was in 1965, not exactly recent but it's on the radar. This kind of thing can happen and telling a family it's a freak accident isn't a comfort.

[Stillness]

How do you feel about FGM (and honor killings, since they're recently on the table) being sincerely held religious beliefs?

Immoral.

How do we know where to draw the line?

I don't know. The Bible guides me.

are the nonreligious always relegated to last place?

I don't view your beliefs any differently than any others. I'm not extremely versed on the law, but I think you can make the same case for your beliefs if your freedom starts to be interfered with. I know there are some self-proclaimed satanists (that I think are really atheists) that are using the recent supreme court ruling on birth control to claim an exemption from certain health laws. There was another case this year where town council meetings were allowed to have prayer and that was extended to benedictions by non-believers.

My faith doesn't leave any room to impose belief on others, so no one like me would ever be in authority or influence legislation from any position other than as a defendant. I'm not a threat to you in your irreligiousity. All I do is talk. You all worry me, though. I never know when and where the hammer is coming down next.

[Little]

That was really rude, Stillness.

[Stillness]

That was really rude, Stillness.

Really? How so?

EDIT: The "you all?" I mean people that are passionate against other's religious practice and that have the potential to legislate, vote, or otherwise shape public policy.

[Little]

If I had said, "Atheists like me, at least in Tennessee, won't be affecting you since it's illegal for us to hold office. You Christians worry me, though. I never know when I'm going to have to get the ACLU involved just to protect my basic constitutional rights." That would be pretty rude, and honestly if it were said to any other poster, it would be deleted and be a bannable offense.

[effy2014]

This has been a great discussion. I never meant to cause any mental instability or to question anyone's moral judgments except insofar as I was being labeled immoral. We all have hot button issues. This apparently is one of mine. I am thankful this isn't a forum where Holocaust deniers are prevalent or I would probably be banned for life.

[Stillness]

I didn't mean any offense. I shouldn't have lumped everybody together, because I know that some people are able to be passionate while advocating for freedom for those with whom they disagree.

Also I wasn't talking about your religion or lack of it when I said "you all." And I wouldn't be offended if you expressed your fears, especially if you were a member of a group that's been persecuted (very often violently) nearly everywhere on the planet.

[Little]

Not going to get in a ****ing contest over persecution, just going to say that both "discrimination against atheists" and "persecution of Christians" warrant Wikipedia pages and despite the difference in titles, handle the same topic for each group.

[Stillness]

I wasn't trying to fight with you over who has it the roughest, Little. I know how hated atheists are by the religious. You've expressed some of your struggles in the past, to me specifically if you can remember. I'm not offended by that, so I didn't expect to offend anyone else by revealing the fear that prompted the start of the thread. I'm sorry it did and an otherwise interesting discussion came to a finish like to this.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I could throw in one argument which is purely my opinion.

A baby can not make his own decision. It off course has to be made by an Adult. I guess up until the legal age, an Adult makes all the decisions at that point that child can then forever make his own decisions. We are born through someone but I'm a stickler that we belong to ourselves. Certainly respect for our elders and up-bringing including what we were taught, morals come into play or not if we were not taught.

Here is a question. Do we really have the right to make such decisions? As man? As the Adult?

Throughout my "young" years, I've spoken to many a man that is angry that he was circumcised, equally though those that have stated it makes no difference or they don't care.

Do women have a stigma of a man who is? I honestly don't recall of my partners but I definitely recall some girls not liking it and some that loved it.

In a World of "different" people, different thoughts, religion, passions.. I don't believe there will be an answer other than what did the baby think when that baby became a man. What was his answer.

That's a pole I'd like to see, "no pun intended" ...