[CHANDLERS WISH]

Your going to start your period.

Or:-

You ate Snappy Tom for breakfast.

Or:-

You think someone is repeated but in reality I would guess that what was suggested was, "you asked to talk to him over the phone", I think the suggestion was " pick a time" where you can instead talk face to face about it and both have time to think about the questions you want to raise, or answers your prepared to give.... As, he replied only with "possibly".

Silly duffer... Don't get annoyed...

The relationship itself needs time

I don't know... I just want more!

If your prepared to "invest", then hang about and see if you start to get your answers in-other-words, over time.

Patience is such a horrid word I'm convinced but it's also THE BEST WORD to finding out all and finding all...


smile..

CW

[ThexMrs]

Actually, I'm getting very close to my period... I think. I need to look at a calendar. I know it was before my first move. I've been irritated and emotional the last two days so it makes sense. Argh... Being a woman sucks sometimes. Stupid boys have it so easy.

I wanted to tell him my concern over the phone because I wasn't sure when I was going to see him so yes... That part is right. I wanted him to think about it and have it in the back of his mind. The wanting to actually have the get to know each other talk is something I want to do in person over a nice dinner. (Though he can never make that) So... Maybe a cup of coffee or something. Take it slowly, you know?

I'm prepared... I'm typically patient but this is a guy I could potentially become very serious with and without knowing him, that's really bothering me because if I can get serious with him (you know - long term) I want to!

[ThexMrs]

P.S. - Smiling.

[caterpillar79]

The agony of waiting

P.S. - Smiling.

You, silly...you crack me up. I want to imagine you smiling (really)!

I'm prepared... I'm typically patient but this is a guy I could potentially become very serious with and without knowing him, that's really bothering me because if I can get serious with him (you know - long term) I want to!

I totally get you. After being played upon by wolves, you want to find a place of refuge. Knowing what you want in your present relationship is a very good sign of readiness. But you are just in its threshold.

When you go to a new acquaintance's home, do you demand things or ask him/her to do stuff for you without timing? Of course not! You will play it by ear: sensitive to the cues he/she gives you, you cannot "force" him/her to give you want you want or need for the time being unless, #1 you've told/asked himher, #2 he/she asked you what you need/want or what he/she can offer you, #3 naturally overly attentive to your needs. Whichever way, you still need to WAIT until he/she gets to you and be able to provide you your needs, right?

I know this is a bit off, but I just want to show you that we can be very patient if we choose to, even though it ticks us off. But tell you what, most of the best things I know is achieved with patience...waiting over time.

Examples:

* A fine wine is aged over time

* Food preserved takes time to prepare, but lasts long...

* Music...yeah, we listen to it, love it, enjoy it, dance with it. But you know how extensive it was? The composer/writer spent hours/days to finish it, dub it and refine it. Once done with that, they record...and much more steps before getting in the market, or aired.

And on with my litany of examples...

You know if he is worth the wait. Be patient, love. Take your time. Don't push him to let you in his sphere. Wait, and remind yourself, that the best things in life is achieved with loving patience.

[WildChild]

Going to be a bit of ice water here. Something that concerns me with all this, is that you want from him something you haven't given or earned yet. You have to admit that you haven't behaved in a manner that is worthy of trust, whether he "knows" it or not, it colors your interactions and relationship. You both have work to do and it does take time. People who come from backgrounds that make trust and self esteem difficult usually need time to build that. It doesn't really come naturally to us because it wasn't there when it should have been - in our childhood.

You are getting peeved with him for not being open with you, yet you have done things that would raise big red flags with most people. Who are you really most irritated with? Him? Or the woman you see in the mirror? You have to deal with your stuff before (at least start) you demand others do so. You've dealt in fairly a short time with several men, none of whom has behaved as you would like, you just can't expect it happen that fast. No matter what the initial heart pumping, fluttery stuff makes you feel like, it takes time to know someone, learn to communicate with each other, develop a full level of trust and really be comfortable to open up and love. Then keeping that going takes work. Our parents and other close adults as we are growing up are our first and primary model for that and when you've had no model or a really poor one, there is extra work involved. It can be done. But you have to stay conscious and aware of what you are doing and
why.

Another factor is that until we have dealt with our own stuff and made some progress we generally attract people (or are attracted to) people who fit our old pattern, if they don't we often force them in to it by our responses and behavior. I know you are intelligent enough to recognize some of this - but it's always hard for us to see what we are closest to - ourselves. I've dealt with this all my life. It can be very frustrating. In truth I wish I still had the option of counseling, I had found one who really was a great help but w/o insurance it just isn't possible. I recognize that even though this is of great importance to me, I need someone objective to yank my reins once in a while and keep me on track. You've had some big stuff to deal with, you know and recognize some of it but there is more that you don't see yet - just because very few of us can see the full wrongness of what we been trained into growing up in a disfunctional setting.

Calm down. Slow down. Work on you first. You are a young woman with many good qualities, you need to recognize and value those fully before anyone else will. Please realize, saying this to you, I recognize that this something I am still dealing with at 50+. I have trouble consistantly valuing myself and know what that can do to you and to relationships. Start working on it now-don't drag it out!

[Guest]

I do apologize if all these things sound repatative. You seem really frustrated with this issue. To be honest; what it comes down you to is you... it is YOUR choice to be with him. You can leave if you want to. IF this relationship is already frustrating you then leave. YOU don't HAVE to do anything but die and pay taxes.

I do have to agree with WC. Having a past like yours I think you need to seriously commit to seeing someone that can help you. Because IF you can't be statisfied with yourself...have confidence and all that jazz... then you'll ALWAYS be looking to find something that makes you "happy". You'll end up nit picking EVERYTHING that you think might be wrong. And it will result in your unhappiness.

You need to take it easy. and RELAX. Do you go to school? or work full time?

[ThexMrs]

You all are very right.

Cat - Things do come better over time. Like you said, a fine wine, a great song, most things. Patience is a virtue. The funny thing is that I've always considered myself very patient. I'm the most patient person in my entire family and out of all of my friends. I'm the one everyone comes to for a advice. It's weird for me to be in this position but in a way it might make me appreciate and see things I've never seen before.

WC - I don't think that you were cold or mean, nothing like that. What you said is so true and I know you are right. I really appreciate that you don't sugar-coat what you have to say.

In a way, no I haven't given him what I want. When it comes to welcoming him into my world and telling him personal things from my past (not everything) yes, I've done that but no... I didn't tell him about Ryan and I know that is what you are probably referring to. I did something very bad whether I wanted to or not. That has eaten me up so much inside. There were days that I just sat there and thought about it and wanted to cry, wanted to tell him but I can't. I know that I would lose him and I don't want that. (You could also being talking about Marty a little bit as well)

I am angry at myself. I'm angry at the person I have become since Marty and I broke up. That was a devastation that I have never had to deal with. I've never really had my heart broken to this extent. Every other relationship I drove them away and I knew I was doing it. I did it to myself but not this time. This time my heart was the one that was broken by the other person. I've never had that happen. I'm the heartbreaker. Ever since Marty and I broke up I started drinking a lot, I smoked pot a few times, I hooked up with random guys I didn't know (not sex/oral - just making out and feeling up, etc) I had sex with Jared (before we were official) I just became someone I wasn't. Now I've had sex with Ryan though I didn't want to. I'm just a mess. The one good thing I can say is that I've only cut once and that was just to prove a point. It was just one little cut. I'm just not the same person that I used to be. I'm wild! When I was with Marty I didn't drink but maybe a couple of times. I didn't smoke pot. I was a very good girl. I am not blaming him though. People can come out of breaks up and not do anything that I did. I'm weak I guess.

I do need counseling. I know this. I have to love myself before I can love anyone else. I kind of love myself but at the same time I don't care about myself. Maybe I don't REALLY love myself. I'm kind of in this I don't give a shhh mode. Use me, abuse me, whatever you want. Why should I care? That is something I have to get out of though because that could turn into something VERY bad. Since I don't live by the bar I used to frequent after Marty and I broke up, I don't go getting drunk as often. I actually miss that. When I was out, I felt good. There was never a time that I didn't have at least two guys or more hit on me. I had fun with them. I had fun in general. The next day wasn't really good but that night was what I needed. Now I don't have that and I have to make myself happy some how. I don't know how.

Pixi - I am filling out my Financial Aid right now so that I can go back to school this fall. One of the big problems is that I have been unemployed since late last year. That has given me so much time on my hands to think and I already think way too much. I am looking for faults I guess. Sometimes I do thinks without really knowing that I am doing them. I did them so much in the past that they became a part of me. Now I think I do them and don't realize it. I have to break men. You may not know what I mean by that. Let me do my best to explain it. I have to push and push so hard that they finally break and then I get this sense of I won but then by my own doing they leave. Not always. I've had many stick it out and try to work on things but I will continue to push and break them until they finally can't take it or once they are broken I will leave and then beg them to take me back though I really don't want to be back. It's this sick game. I don't know why I do it. I guess I feel like it's proof of their love.

[Guest]

That's good that you are taking steps to further your education. That is also a plus bc as you know we all gain a little confidence with a taste of success. And you're a pretty smart chick I'm sure you'll do fine with school.

I am sorry to hear that you "break" guys. To me... its understandable; why? well bc you were used by them. So a normal thing to do is be angry and retaliate. I did that as well when I was younger. I got cheated on by my FIRST bf. I gave this guy everything.. and he treated me like and basically "maintained" me. After him I went out with a guy that seemed to be great...but dumped me cause and I honest to god quote him on this ... " i was too straight forward" (insert blank stare here) well done!

So anyway, I basically told my self that I was going to act like a guy in the relationship and use and abuse ppl as how they did to me. I was open with them to begin with; i told guys what i wanted and if they couldn't give it to me then don't get mad if I was "looking".

HOWEVER...lol. I realized that doing that I was limiting myself and not having faith in relationships can ruin your own chances of being in a great one. Basically I grew up.(awe) lol.

[WildChild]

Spent a lot of time thinking about a response yesterday and then lost it.You are looking to men to provide positive feedback, boost your self esteem, give you confidence and to feel loved. We all do some of that with other people, it's part of human nature. How we interact and the responses we get from others has a huge effect on our sense of self and self worth. I think this is especially true when we haven't had much positive reinforcement in early childhood or have dealt with situations of abuse. I've dealt with this all my life. When the people who are supposed to be your loving protectors are the ones you need to be protected from it creates some messy thinking.

When your role models were negative, how are you supposed to know what a healthy relationship looks and feels like? Whether you spent your childhood hiding, walking on egg shells or simply standing up and taking it on the chin you don't know how a healthy family functions or how emotionally balanced people interact? So those of us who have this background and there are a lot of us, draw upon incomplete and imperfect assumptions from observation, we see fantasy relationships in the media and we cobble together some sort of ideal. But that isn't a functional model - it's not real, it's not what we have lived and had engraved into our responses. Even around people who come out of a healthy environment, our interpretations and responses shape the situation into one that is familiar to us and fullfills our expectations. Breaking out of this isn't easy. I've fought it all my life and because we tend to draw or be drawn to similarly disfunctional people it's even harder. It takes a good deal of awareness and constant self monitoring and observation. Even then it's hard because the people around you probably don't know any better either. It goes on generation after generation.

I just don't want to see you young people going through the heartache of a chain of poor choices and bad relationships like I have. I keep examining things and thinking I've got a handle on it and will take a completely different approach and still end up in a mess. The problem is that no matter how you change the window dressing it's the same business. Over and over I've ended up with men who do not and/or cannot love me - at least not until I've left in complete frustration and pain. I've been cheated on multiple times. lied to, used and abused, ignored, neglected - I'm a giver and I over do it, thinking if I give a little more somehow it will all be ok. I always give more weight to their needs and wants than to my own. I'm working on taking more care of me and learning to recieve. Changing the pattern on your own is tough, really tough. That's why I can't encourage you strongly enough to get some help. It is true that most people who go into counseling do so at least in part, to find their own answers, so you have to hunt around for one who will give you some tools to work with, appropriate feed back and not just wallow with you.

Getting emotionally healthy is a journey and it isn't always easy and I don't know who defines what it is or when you've gotten there. Truth is it probably a bit different for each of us. That may account for the popularity of religion - it gives a ready made model to plug into, provides a community and it doesn't require much actual thought. Do this, this way, don't do that, say the magic words and the big daddy will love you, give you presents and you won't get tortured forever and ever. That works for some people - didn't for me. In fact that got me into a bigger mess. You must find your own path. I'm still working on it. I know my confusion about men and women is huge, I've been hurt by both, helped by both and had a lot of people in my life who respond to me as part of a gender group that they have labled and classified negatively. I've paid heavily for the actions of other women; who were themselves damaged people, who made unreasonable demands, used sex as a weapon, were unfaithful and I've caught the backlash. We all do to some degree. At some point we watch have to own our own stuff and work to help others heal, while we heal ourselves.

Life souldn't be this painfull and complicated. We humans are a funny lot and have really made a difficult situation for ourselves and we don't seem to know how to untangle the web of life now that we've blundered around and messed it up. I have a vision of life that could be simple, flowing and loving. But am learning simplicity of living requires complexity of thought and enough intelligence to know when to leave things alone. Easier said than done. Get help Lindsey. Don't end up 30 years from now looking back and seeing a trail of disaster with a life alone ahead of you. Where I live I am surrounded by a dozen women over 60 or 70 in exactly that position.

[ThexMrs]

Thank you for these responses. You are right yet again. I did want to retaliate maybe sub-consciously though. It took me a while to figure out that I was breaking these guys on purpose. I catch myself at times doing this now but not anywhere close to before.

I do want to be loved. I want to be needed. Wanted. Attractive. Sexually wanted. I want all of this. I am looking in the wrong places though. ESPECIALLY by going to the bars and doing this. It's what I call liquid love and it only lasts a few hours or for a night.

I really need to get help.