[kaylar]

Let's put it like this, Kitty.
We know the exact rights (primarily the
lack thereof) that pertain to strangers to
a marriage.

We know what has to be done, and how it
is done, and how it is not done.

We didn't invent rules of evidence, we didn't
invent the laws, we are only posting this is
how it is done.

And we post the steps because that is how
the law DEMANDS they be done.

The idea of Chain of Evidence brings the
matter too close to reality, hence it must
be discarded.

I would advise any woman involved with a
married man to comprehend that she has
no rights. That her child, until paternity
proven, is not the child of another woman's
husband. In matters where paternity is
disputed, the collection of DNA should be
done under a COURT ORDER with Witnesses
and Proof of Identity to avoid the possibility
that the DNA collected is not from the person
specified, and was collected under the Court's
supervision.

[Drama28]

If you don't like me, stop posting.

"Good luck getting that dna test result entered into court; would love to see how you get around the chain of custody issue." I have no idea how you can be so critical of something you don't know about. Where I live that is how it is done...through the court, it was done at the courthouse by the child support people and the results are given to the court. I don't konw what you do where you live, but it was done through my county at the courthouse and it is "official" or they wouldn't have wasted their time/money doing it. It was done under their supervision and with proof of identity, ect. Like I said before, my ex-husband was "excluded" with the results and now we just wait a week or 2 for him to be "proven" her father. Why must you constantly criticize me? I never said you claimed to be God and I never said I was either. I do not act holier, I am just trying to prove a point. You don't like me, my situation or the things I post. At the begining maybe you actually tried to post to "help" me or give advice, but now it is anything but helpful. If anything it is only hurtful things to get me going and upset me. If you don't like me, please just stop posting. I wanted to be here for support and advice, but not to be taunted because I didn't do the "right" thing in your minds. You can judge me all you want, but it won't change anything. Plus, being a lawyer you claim that you aren't judging, just giving your legal opinion"(and how can you do that with your predicament is beyond me but you manage to)" & "Lady you are full of it." That certainly sounds like personal thoughts, and nothing a lawyer would say when trying to give advice. Like I said, you don't have to like me, you can judge me all you want. I just came here to talk and get support, it is called the "Women's Support Forum" correct? The only person that I care about what they think is God; when the day comes for me to get judged he is the only one that is better than us all and has that position to do so. If you don't like me, just stop posting.

[Stealthkitty]

Drama - it is not worth it trying to talk to you anymore. You are too defensive and not at all rational. We have tried to lay this situation out for you so that you can see what you are facing - You don't want our help - Cool.

It says in God's word that the time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine - that time is now. You don't want to listen to reason; you don't want to know what you are facing legally; and you don't want to hear anything but poor little thing - you been done wrong.

Well so be it - have fun at your pity party.

[Stealthkitty]

Let's put it like this, Kitty.
We know the exact rights (primarily the
lack thereof) that pertain to strangers to
a marriage.

We know what has to be done, and how it
is done, and how it is not done.

We didn't invent rules of evidence, we didn't
invent the laws, we are only posting this is
how it is done.

And we post the steps because that is how
the law DEMANDS they be done.

The idea of Chain of Evidence brings the
matter too close to reality, hence it must
be discarded.

I would advise any woman involved with a
married man to comprehend that she has
no rights. That her child, until paternity
proven, is not the child of another woman's
husband. In matters where paternity is
disputed, the collection of DNA should be
done under a COURT ORDER with Witnesses
and Proof of Identity to avoid the possibility
that the DNA collected is not from the person
specified, and was collected under the Court's
supervision.

Thanks for posting Kay. You are right of course. I think that we should leave it for now. She doesn't want our help. She just wants to cry and feel sorry for herself. I just hope that someone else reading this was helped by it.

[kaylar]

As I wrote in my first post, this is the text book
situation...
Woman gets involved with a married man knowing
he is married.

Now, in these cases it's the most common scenario
that;

1) He does not, nor ever had any intention of
leaving his wife whatsoever.

If a married man had the intention of leaving his
wife, he would have left her BEFORE he met the
other woman. This is true because the reasons
he left his wife are intrinsic to his wife/his
relationship with his wife, etc.

In short when a marriage is over, someone leaves.

In cases where the parties continue to live together
it is certain, after the elapsation of two months in
the currency of the affair that he has absolutely no
intention of leaving his wife.

Hence any woman who is involved with a married
man and that man does not move out of the matrimonial
home and begin divorce proceedings can rest assured
she is a fling.

2) that he will tell the O.W. any series of lies about
his situation, PRIMARILY that he can't leave his
wife for the children/economic/other reason.

In cases like this it is virtually a given that the O.W.
knows nothing about his home situation save what
he tells her.

The fact that he is a cheater should alert one that
his moral fiber is rather low and that lying to him
is as difficult as perspiring.

3) That he will end the relationship without fanfare
when;
he finds a younger woman
his wife finds out about the affair
the O.W. makes demands
he gets tired of the O.W.

All the cards are in the hands of the cheating
husband. The O.W. exists at his whim. He
calls the shots. He decides when and how it
is over.

So, the fact that this particular relationship
followed that pattern is as strange as catching
a cold.

The problem that arises is where there is a child
involved, for his first reaction is to escape the
responsibility.

Hence many avoid DNA tests, there has been
some claim that some testing procedures allow
contamination/alteration/misidentification.

Some cases the DNA is so contaminated because
it was done in such manner that the results are
inconclusive. In others, switching DNA from one
candidate to another is not unknown, and in the
last, a friend of the husband will identify himself
as the husband, give his DNA which, of course
will not match.

Hence it is an area where all possible abuse
must be carefully monitored.

In a majority of cases, men will distribute their
assets previous to the Court Action being launched
so as to avoid having to pay the correct amount.

In a recent case, a particular man was able to
so hide his assets that the child received a pittance.

Hence, any woman involved with a married man
would be wise to, during the currency of the affair,
insure she is protected.

This can be via a bank account, stock, insurance
policies, trust funds, property bought in her name,
etc.

When this is NOT done, the O.W. should be forewarned.

That is the point I have made from page one to page
fourteen.

If one woman reading these posts removes herself
from relationships with a married man, or demands
that he perform some financial action to the benefit
of herself and/or child, then this thread has value.

[Stealthkitty]

You are right Kay. I hope that it has helped someone.

[nicky2007]

Well Hopfully That Will Be The End Of That! I Really Hope Everything Works Out For You Drama, Am Sure At Somepoint In Our Lives We'll All Find Ourselves In Situations, We Wish We Didnt Get Our Selves Into, Hardest Of These Concern Love. Ive Never Been In A Situation Like Yours But I Do Know What It Feels Like To Be In Love, And I Know I'd Do Anything At All For My Partner, I Think Anyone Who Falls This Much In Love Can Understand Where Your Situation Could Of Arose From. Good Luck Anyway Hun

[Stealthkitty]

Grace, forgiveness and restoration abound to the broken and repentent. There is nothing that any of us can do or has done that God will not forgive. Remember that.

[edelweiss]

I hope that it has helped someone.

Although I usually make it a principle to only lurk on forums, I've joined today purely to say that yes, this thread HAS helped me. I am a 21-year-old female and although I have a loving and committed boyfriend, and no intention of ever becoming involved with a married man, Kaylar, your posts in particular have stripped away any idealism or self-delusion that I might possibly otherwise have fallen victim to later in life. I am amazed that you were able to accurately predict the course of this dilemma from the very beginning, based purely on your own experiences at work.

So if it is any reassurance, both to the original poster and the people who have tried to truly, practically help her, I am very glad that this thread exists, and that I have read it. Kaylar particularly, I can see that you never wrote offensively, or meant any harm - sure, you wrote using many case examples (which is in my opinion reflective of the fact that you are a lawyer and that is how you learn/ argue your points - by referring to precedents and similar situations) - but they were intended to be illustrative, and were not in any way efforts to "subtly reflect" or attack the original poster, which is how I think they were interpreted.

Anyway, thank you for helping me to learn some important life lessons without having to go through the pain of first-hand experience! I now appreciate my boyfriend so much more. And "Drama", I wish you all the best.

[kaylar]

I'm very glad you posted Edleweiss.

The major problem is that every woman in a situation
like this things her story is unique.

As with domestic violence, if more women talked to
women, they'd learn how endemic it is.

In this particular situation I knew exactly what the
Married man would do because it is a pattern.

If you do women related law you will see it every
other month. Every other week domestic violence.
Every week, adultery. It's common. And it follows
the same course.

No one is different to the extent that a man who
is involved and doesn't begin divorce proceedings
within the first weeks of the relationship will EVER
do it.

It is a high risk relationship. Being involved with
a drug addict, a married man, a suicidal man, are
high risk. One walks into them and must appreciate
that ending badly is how it ends.