[Stillness]

So many unexpected things can happen in life

That's the point of a vow. It's what the "worse" means in "better or worse."

You answered "yes" to my question, but your explanation says that the answer is no. That may be why your boyfriend doesn't want to wear a ring.

[Claret]

Me and him are obviously not on the same page about this. And I'm not trying to force him to wear one if he doesn't want to, but at the end of the day, all his decision will do is upset me and I'll have to live on. But if he loves me for real, doesn't he want to make me happy? We are all different, but if I was the man and my wife wanted us to wear rings, why not!? I agree it defeats the purpose if he feels forced to wear one, but if I go to him and ask him what would you want to wear to symbolize our love instead of the ring and he says there's nothing, than there's a problem (for me).

This equates to a type of emotional blackmail. If he wants you to be happy he'll do what you want regardless as to whether or not it is of his choosing. Not fair. You can't have it both ways.

[atskitty2]

Yes we are. But we like to think ahead of time and want to avoid the possibility of a divorce, if it doesn't work out anymore. So many unexpected things can happen in life and we just rather keep it simple by not getting married.

So, divorce is just breaking up, with more paperwork. What's the difference? The possibility of breaking up didn't stop you from getting into a relationship, why would the possibility of breaking up stop you from publicly committing for life, if you already are? I don't stop driving a car because of the very real possibility I could be injured or die in a crash. I don't get the rationale there.

My point is, when committed to someone already in your life, your mindset & in your heart, speaking vows to them is really not a big deal. When I married, all that was really a technicality because it was what we already felt & believed for each other. Those intentions & committments were in place long before any vows were spoken.
Of course, we all express ourselves differently, but there's no allowance for a difference of expressions, when it's really the opposite that is being demonstrated.
I see nothing wrong with remaining unmarried-that's not my point. But I think, y'all aren't being honest with yourselves & I am not sure he's been 100% honest with you.

I think his, not just reluctance, but refusal to show anything, not just a ring, symbolizing the commitment & love between you, probably means he has some reservations about the longevity of the relationship. It's great that he attends counseling with you & that you're working on the issues. That's certainly a positive sign that he's committed to working things out.

[Claret]

So many unexpected things can happen in life -- yes -- including the fact that he could die in an accident and it'll be twice as hard for you to survive - no widows benefits, no pension sharing, no orphans allowance for your children, it's harder to prove to the Government that you are living common-law unless you can prove this by paper work you could lose your home that you've bought together (this recently happened to a friend of mine). (For reasons unknown to everybody else they didn't "want" to get married either, but they bought a house, bought a car etc. When he died it turns out he never got divorced from a previous relationship - his wife got it all including his 1/2 of the house he bought with my friend).

Yes, so many things can happen in the future.

[Pollon]

..... But we like to think ahead of time and want to avoid the possibility of a divorce, if it doesn't work out anymore... and we just rather keep it simple by not getting married.

This is keeping the exits open for those difficult times ahead.

People who marry COMMIT themselves to each other knowing full well that there may be times when they actually won't want to be together. In other words, they intentionally shut the exits so that their partner knows they can rely on them.

A woman, particularly one with children, who cohabitates make herself extremely vulnerable. Assuming she earns less than the man and is the primary caretaker of the children, her dependence undermines her ability to challenge his unacceptable behavior or make demands on him for fear that he can easily abandon the family.

Those who claim marriage is "just a piece of paper" sacrifice far to much to avoid "just a piece of paper." And their attempts to avoid "just a piece of paper" clearly indicate that it is so much more.

It's great that you are going to counseling. However, one of the purposes of counseling is to bring the truth out into the open so it can be dealt with. Be prepared to reveal your honest truth and to hear his.

Good luck

[KMonte85]

It seems the conversation has turned towards focusing on why the couple isn't married, and perhaps why they should be. If vehementa and her boyfriend do not want to legally marry, that is their choice - regardless of the reasoning. There are hundreds of reasons for and against spiritual and legal union, and it is an intimate decision to be made solely by the two people involved. If/when those two people have made that decision together, and are both happy with it, then that ends the discussion.

As for the ring situation, vehementa, you're probably not going to change your boyfriend's mind on the issue. However, if you're in counseling, it would be a good idea to bring this up so you two can discuss it and come to some sort of compromise or at least an understanding. I didn't read your other posts, so I'm not entirely sure what's going on relationship-wise, but in my opinion, for two people how live together, and have agreed to be united (even if not in holy matrimony), have children, etc, etc, then a ring doesn't really mean much anyway.

Plenty of people who wear rings behave very much like they are single and ready to mingle. Plenty of people who don't wear rings are loving and loyal partners. It's a mindset and a conscious decision, not a physical symbol that can be taken off. A ring does not make a person faithful and dedicated to their partner. So why fight about wearing one?

[DreamP346]

I agree with KM. Whether vehementa wants to marry or not is her choice. If living together but not being married makes her comfortable, then that is her right. Imposing personal values, whether religious, social or financial, is not what was asked by the OP.

Regarding the ring, I think it is a very small thing to ask for to make vehementa happy. We make our partners do stuff they don't like everybody: wash the dishes, change the diaper, be nice to in-laws, go to a movie they don't like, wear a tie/dress they don't want, hang out with our friends they don't like. But we make them do it because it makes us happy and they do it because it makes us happy. So why is asking for a ring such a big deal?

vehementa, I think your partner just doesn't want to make that commitment publicly. To him, wearing the ring is the equivalent of getting married. He may be emotionally committed to you, but the ring makes it real and some people have a difficult time with that realization. As I mentioned before, I don't like the idea of wearing a ring, but I do it because my husband wanted it. It is such a small sacrifice (if you can even call it that) to make to make someone you love happy.

[Claret]

My only argument or question is that she wants the ring which is a symbol of marriage without wanting the marriage. My question is then, why the ring?

I know many people that are simply living together without being married. They have wonderful harmonious unions, happy children, and great lives. They don't wear a wedding ring.

I have no preference as to whether or not they are married.

[atskitty2]

I understand your point KMonte, but for me at least, it's not the married vs unmarried that I **mean** to comment on. I think it's actually a lack of genuine commitment that is at play for him, at least, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

[atskitty2]

^^Well, those stars are not hiding a curse word folks I just meant to emphasize the word "mean". lol