[Hopeless Dork]

Mes T... your words are so familiar to me. I have tried/still try... to be okay with porn, to keep the peace. To be the non-controlling, secure gf... even though my heart sinks into my stomach at the thought of him looking up girls online.

There is so much talk of this male instinct for visual variety... and our need to deal with it. But what about what must be instinctual as well, some womens inherent dislike of it.

If a woman says porn hurts her feelings, everyone jumps in with why does it bother you? Are you insecure? Are you jealous? Are you not getting enough sex from him? Are you fulfilling his fantasies? Think about it this way, think about it that way, well at least its better than this or that, and so on and so on.

Many men come in and say fantasy vs reality, if its not causing a problem in the relationship etc etc.. as if someone having their feelings hurt is not a valid problem in the relationship.

If someone is coming here writing about their concern over their SO's porn, they are obviously unhappy about it. But are told time and again, not to feel that way... and all the reasons they should not be bothered. They need to change their views etc.

I don't get how a man's need for 'visual stimulation' is any more valid than a womans need to feel sexually special to the man they love.

But like you mes T, I've tried to be okay with it, but I'm slowly discovering that I am not being true myself in doing that. That I am having to find ways to see things different , see things in a way that don't make me feel worthless or break my heart. Why should I have to do that? Wouldn't it be easier for him to just knock it off, his heart won't break not watching porn... my heart breaks when he does... so the logical thing is for me to just learn to suck it up and deal, right.

[lowprofile]

clarification

My friend Feministben!!

I respect your statement if u do not agree.....
may be in future u may agree with my points or with some of my points or
may be I agree with some of your points in future.....

I have said with different perspective.....I still believe in it....

Now i want to clarify only two points"

u said:

The women's dignity, assuming it is being compromised, is being bought. Our dignity is being bought on a daily basis. When you work a job, you agree to be subservient to your boss and do things perhaps you'd rather not. Is that not having your dignity bought? What about the way we choose to live in society - we trade in certain freedoms so we can feel safe and protected. That is trading in your dignity.

In regards to our sexual dignity in particular, women have been using their sexuality in a mercenary manner since time imemorial. When you flirt to get something you want for example, is that a loss of dignity or is it empowering?

So who could DISAGREE with this...u are 100% right that woman are doing these stuff BUT who is saying that THIS IS RIGHT??
....YES this is also against the diginity of woman.....yes this is also wrong......thanku for mentioning such acts ....
woman should not do this stuff also...

SECONDLY about "proof of relation between porn and sex trafficking":

You can go to CNN documentry site and check for "sex traficking" documentry..
there were interviews not only from prostitutes but also female porn stars (i m not sure that technically is there any difference between prostitute and porn star???)

.......girls coming from africa and east europe to rich countries and they have too many debt in their own country and here they are illegals , so they are forced to perform such acts......
you can also get report from UNO sex traficking reports.....they insist on prostitutes but some porn female stars are also forced to do that..

if i would have time I will send you the exact online site......

[SinisterUrge]

This is not healthy and it is against woman 's dignity.

The women in the industry are there of their free will (there are no porn indentured servants). As actresses they make more money than their male counterparts. Women can be openly homosexual or bisexual and this practice is so common that it is not limited to its own niche-genre. You will never find man-on-man porn outside of the specific gay films.

I respect your point as "human's right" ,that we should not object on others' choices but u do not realized the other "human's right" and this one is that it is against our gender's dignity.

It may be against your perception of dignity, but do not assume that your same values are held by everyone else. You do not get to choose what is or is not dignified for other people.

The way they portrait woman in porn , do u agree with that?

Happy, sexually fulfilled, and making more money than somebody with a Master's degree?

ok If normal sex is showing there, it is ok ... but mostly shows are perverted (am not talking about anal or oral sex: these usually considered as non perverted sex nowadays), one woman 3 man or 4 man and many others bad ways?

Group sex is actually quite common in the real world. It predates agriculture. You can find multiple-person sex in every highschool in the country (even the all same sex schools).

and in our routine life we mind if someone would stare us in public if we r kissing only... now how u allow somebody watching real man and wife really making love?

I don't stare at people kissing. Do you? And people who want to 'make love' have to do it in private or at designated areas where there are no children or non-interested bystanders. Anywhere else is illegal.

It has been proved now that
this porn has increased sex trafficking......young girls from poor countries are forced to do porn.

I'd like to see that proof. Human trafficking has decreased dramatically in the last 60 years.

many NON- religious govt. has considered it threat to society and trying to minimize their porn culture.

Many non-religious governments also execute political prisoners, start wars, invade other countries, tell people AIDS is cured with potatos, enforce eugenics. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

look at your innocent daughters and sons, do we want to give them a healthy sex culture or PORN CULTURE?

A healthy sexual culture includes pornography. It will also contain heterosexuals, bisexuals, homosexuals, oral sex, anal sex, sex toys, masturbation, birth control, disease prevention and control, history, responsibility, making babies, and even octogenarians 'getting frisky'.

[SinisterUrge]

who is saying that THIS IS RIGHT?

People who make porn are people. They can decide for themselves what is or is not acceptable for them to do (and we have very strict laws about sex and non-consenting people).

YES this is also against the diginity of woman.....yes this is also wrong......thanku for mentioning such acts ....
woman should not do this stuff also...

Again you assume everyone has to play by your rules. 'Wrong' and 'Dignity' are not two things you get to carve in stone for anyone but yourself.

You can go to CNN documentry site and check for "sex traficking" documentry..
there were interviews not only from prostitutes but also female porn stars

Yes human sex trafficking is a terrible crime. It is not the norm and adults making legal pornography are not sex traffickers.

All of your arguments are the same: "I don't like something. Therefor it is wrong and nobody else should be allowed to do it". That is not reasonable, logical, or realistic.

[Hopeless Dork]

My very good friend who spent 3 years working as a stipper. She became addicted to sniffing heroine, a drug of choice among the girls she worked with... it helped take her 'edge off'... she did not feel good about what she was doing but for some reason felt that was the best way to make money. (high school drop out, never really was able to keep a job).

She came from a home where she was molested by her biological father until she was about 14 and ran away from home. She lived with friends, boyfriends, etc.. until she was 18 then she became a dancer. It gave her independence, she could get her own apt... buy whatever she wanted and she was doing decently other than the drugs and feeling bad part.

She since left that lifestyle, is off the heroine but theres no end in sight on the methadone for maintenance. She's told me stories about the girls she worked with in almost all of the girls she got to know had some history of abuse similiar to their own.

NO one forced her into what she did, and if you asked her at that time if she was doing what she wanted, she would have smiled and said yes. But she wasn't. No her story isn't all girls stories. In fact she said there were some girls she worked with that didn't even care about the money, they loved the attention and being watched and desired, the money was just a bonus.

I just feel like when you see a video of a 19 year old chick getting urinated on, you can watch without guilt feeling like oh yeah she must love pee, she must love her paycheck... whatever makes you feel better about yourself. Me personally, even though she signed something obviously and agreed to it, doesn't make me feel any better about watching something like that.

[ocularone]

this poor poor dead horse...he has been beaten badly. Obviously we are all going to have opinions that spread across the entire spectrum. points and counter-points. remarks and rebuttles.. all in all we have different ideas on what a healthy society should be.

[Hopeless Dork]

this poor poor dead horse...he has been beaten badly. Obviously we are all going to have opinions that spread across the entire spectrum. points and counter-points. remarks and rebuttles.. all in all we have different ideas on what a healthy society should be.

I've been on this forum almost a couple years , and weekly.. if not more often, someone comes in with a my s.o. has been watching porn and I'm hurt post. All of us regulars have established (though some, like me, waver now and then on our beliefs) our opinions and re-state them for the new poster... and it always results in the same.

Everyone argues, everyone states their views, some offer advice to the OP, but the end of it all its just SSDD . Good debates are had, excellent points are raised, but no one really changes their views , much, if at all.

But its still comforting to a lot of women going through it, to know they aren't alone in how they feel about it. Just having the support of yeah, I felt the same way... goes along way into make you feel better. Its bad enough you feel hurt, then a lot of people also want to belittle that hurt and make you feel crazy on top of tha.t

[ocularone]

true..call me stubborn but i will never see it another way than how i do now.

[Guest]

But seems like men who don't watch porn are so far and few between, and it's this whole attitude that most men seem to have that really bothers me.

I can't help but feel like it's oppressive to women. That's the whole point.

Maybe women not watching as much porn as men do has something to do with women still going through the process of awakening their sexuality. I don't know.

I wonder how different things will be in a few decades' time.

I guess I also wish that more women would stand up for their feelings. I'm tired of them being hurt but just feeling like they have to settle.

Similarly, it seems like women who don't use sex toys are so few and far between, and the whole attitude that women need machines, and not men to satisfy them is really troublesome.

I can't help but feel like it's oppressive to men.

Maybe men not using machines as much as women do has something to do with men still going through the process of awakening their sexuality. I dunno.

All devil's talk aside, I completely agree with your last statement.

I really wish more women would stand up for their feelings as well. I'm also tired of them being hurt because they choose to settle.

[Guest]

I've been on this forum almost a couple years , and weekly.. if not more often, someone comes in with a my s.o. has been watching porn and I'm hurt post. All of us regulars have established (though some, like me, waver now and then on our beliefs) our opinions and re-state them for the new poster... and it always results in the same.

Everyone argues, everyone states their views, some offer advice to the OP, but the end of it all its just SSDD . Good debates are had, excellent points are raised, but no one really changes their views , much, if at all.

But its still comforting to a lot of women going through it, to know they aren't alone in how they feel about it. Just having the support of yeah, I felt the same way... goes along way into make you feel better. Its bad enough you feel hurt, then a lot of people also want to belittle that hurt and make you feel crazy on top of tha.t

What I dont' understand is that you talk as if women don't watch porn too.