[CHANDLERS WISH]

Too tired to type more, long day.

'Night

lol's... Me too

I got out some of my psychology texts from uni and started making notes. We really do seem the be wired differently. Men (wild generalisation) want love, kindness, respect and physical intimacy (especially sex, we really do see this as the main event

This is interesting, certainly you studied phychology, something I always wanted to do, but I read alot of books phychoannalizing, however, how many men (except it seems on this Forum) want to, actually know how each sex is wired? Not alot...Although I will include my fiancee in that... I agree, you made another statement further down, if a man is loved, smiled at, told he's special, made to feel loved, and provided with love intimately as well as wanting to grab him, at will, or as I do walk into the bathroom deliberately and say what? I just wanted to look He feels complete...How can you go wrong.

You haven't really said how we are wired

Breasts, butts, sure I think we hate, being immediately touched down there, it's sex...but a slap on the butt, or a view of our boobs, is more like, caveman, can't help himself, cute and makes us feel they look, and feel good....

As for shaving every part we desire of our body for a girls night out? Pride And, we are happy in ourselves and enjoy looking good, it's not for anyone but ourselves, unless we are not in love.

CW

[Tod121]

Ok, I completely understand where each and every one of you is coming from and what you are saying. I also went back and re-read what I said and it does sound like a cry for "poor me, poor me". What I really should have made the point of is poor us because there really is not that much intimacy on either of our parts anymore. So, I'll answer the questions y'all have asked or hinted at

JNS, I did the back massage for 12 of the 13 years we have been together. As a matter of fact, her sister & mother both have asked me on a regular basis to give them back rubs because my wife brags about how good I give them. I am sick and tired of giving them, I work with tools all day long, so my hands are tired at the end of every day (I'm in construction 4 days in the field 1 day in the office, which is significant and I will get to later). I know it sounds like an excuse, but my hands are sore every day. I have asked her to reciprocate in the massage department and she rolls her eyes and laughs at me. As for climax, she says that yeah, I do bring her to it, but like every other woman I have known, not every time. I'm not that much of a fool to think that I have the golden hand, if other things

CW, I have tried the emotional stuff. I offer to draw her baths on a regular basis and she never wants them. I stop by her school & bring her lunch on a regular basis, no strings attached and have never alluded to anything. I quit leaving notes on her car window because she never acknowledged them (and they were in a school parking lot) or when she did, it was that she "found something strange on her window". I hold her every night when I get into bed, no matter if we do or don't have sex or if she is asleep or awake when I get there. I cannot fall asleep without at least my leg touching some part of her body. We are truly a perfect fit when it comes to our bodies lying together (non-sexually). When ever I try to give her an emotional kiss or hug, she pushes me away and says "the boys might see us". Like she doesn't want them to know that we love each other. And as for the sex that we do have, lately she has asked me twice in the past 2 months if "I was done yet". Makes me feel really wanted...

Lana & Janna, yes, she gets all kind of me time. I take the boys with me when ever I can. The two of them mean more to me than anything else other than my wife. I try to give her as much alone time as possible, especially when it comes to the boys because I know they can be a handfull. As I said before, we are coming up on our 10th and for that, I am taking her out of town to a hot springs spa where it will be just the two of us for 3 nights. I bought us a couples massage package and a dinner to a nice restaurant. The big problem is that she is going to be calling whom ever is watching our kids (either her parents or mine) at least 2-3 times a day checking on them. She doesn't know how to relax. I do 90% of the cooking in our family, I know what the kids like to eat better than she does & it really bothers her that I do. I also take them to the baby sitter & school every morning but she picks them up. The one day a week that I am in the office, I have both boys with me, so I am daycare 1 day a week. I am lucky, it's a family owned company that their grandfather owns and he gets to see his grandsons once a week. It has been that way since my oldest boy was 5 months old and will continue until our youngest goes to kindergarten. I have my chore list but the kitchen is mostly my domain because I am the one making the messes in there. As for the rest of the house, we pretty much have a 50/50 split on the work. I also take care of our dog, the yard work (except her vegetable garden) and I am a shade tree mechanic so that we don't have to waste money on a professional mechanic doing vehicle maintenance. I think that she thinks that everything I do is an allusion to sex. Some of it, yes, I'll admit it is, but for the most part, during the day, I am a business as usual type of guy and get done what needs to be done whether it is around the house or at work. As for the couples counseling, I brought that up a couple of years ago after our first son was born and we were going through the same thing. Her response to that was that we didn't need it and we could get through it by ourselves. And in turn she decided to have sex 3-4 times a week for about a month to try and make me forget about it. Then it went back to the same routine and I just said screw it and went along with what we were doing rather than try to fix the problem.

Neither one of us can be accused of being intimate with the other, I'll admit to that. But when I try to I get shut down automatically. Doesn't matter if it is in the kitchen for a good hug and a kiss or if it is in bed. Anymore, I have just thrown a line out there to see what kind of excuse I can get from her when I already know the answer, it's become almost an inside joke that I am the only one that is aware of. I have tried doing the "I'm not going to have sex with her until she asks me for it and then it will be my turn to shut her down" routine, but that doesn't work. It resoundingly blows up in my face. I tried that one time and we went something like 7 months between sex and almost a month between kisses....and those were just a see ya later peck on the cheek. I honestly believe that she has zero desire to be in a sexual relationship. I remember one time overhearing her tell my best friend's girlfriend that "now that I'm married, I don't have to put out" and that pretty well devastated me. I mean really, what is a marriage if the two people involved aren't intimate at some point or another? They are just roommates who share sleeping quarters. Which is what I feel like a lot of the time. Like I said before, I love her dearly, but I don't like her on a regular basis right now.

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I know this thread has been running for quite some time and to be honest I have only had a chance to read some of these posts but I can completely understand the original posting.

I too have tried hard to be helpful around the house and with our 3 kids, trying to give my wife the "me time" she seems to need, she see's her family at least 2-3 times a week (far more than I see my family). I by the way work full time and my wife is a house-wife, I completely understand the chores around the house can become boring, mundane, etc and feel never-ending, so I have tried to show apprciation for what is done around the house and she used to make mine and the kids lunches everyday (I now try to do them when I am not busy running the kids around to their friends or different clubs they belong to) and on occassion I have texted her while Im at work saying how delicious the sandwiches she made me were (this is only a minor thing but felt they were so tasty it would be good to tell her how much I enjoyed them). Her response to these texts have been somewhat muted and "why tell her I like the sandwiches"? response).

I used to buy her flowers only then to get the "usual" what have you been up to \ feeling guilty about something comments? Us blokes dont really want that sort of response when we are trying to be nice. I texted the other day and said "I love you" but didnt get a response at all until I got home and she mentioned she got the message. I have also texted her a few times and she has delegated the kids to reply back to me which I find irritating. I've brought her up cups of tea when I have left for work and she is still in bed, told her she looks great, "that colour suits you", etc, etc But what I seem to get instead is overlooked when she is making a drink and just makes herself 1, goes to bed before me when I am busy or much later than me, so as to avoid going to bed together, gets dressed in another room or with her back to me (I am mixing up minor and important things here (rambling)), the list could go on.

I feel for the last few years she is like an ice maiden for around 2 months!! (the previously mentioned once a month would be better than I am getting!) and then she is a sexy vamp (and off the scale!!) when she is in the mood but then goes cold on me again for another 8 weeks or so...I am left feeling (wrongly I know but I am human (and a bloke ;-) why do I bother trying to be nice and start shutting down and grumping around the house, well if being helpful, caring, etc does work then why bother?

[WildChild]

Tod it sounds like A) her hormone cycles are overly extreme and B) for some reason she just isn't reponsive to you.

Some of this is habit but here's my take - for whatever reason she isn't getting what she wants from you in terms of attention. In a balanced relationship, there is a sense that each is giving an equal contribution although they may be very different. Her response to your compliment on the sandwiches may be that she feels its sarcastic? She may be feeling that she isn't really contributing as much as you are and that she is dependent. Your kids are all in school? It might be really good for her to get a part time job of some sort or to do some volunteer work.

Find time when the kids won't be popping in and sit down and talk, quietly and rationally about this. Ask her what she is feeling and then listen. Don't judge, don't point out where she is wrong or missing something, just listen. Hear what she has to say. Then to sure you got it, repeat the main points, "I'm hearing that you don't feel valued, you want to do something that feels more meaningful, ..." Use her words or phrases as much as you can. DO NOT try to talk her round on any of it. Just let her know that you have heard. If it is appropriate tell her you need some time to think about all she has said - not as if you are preparing to pass judgement on it but to really understand.

Women are verbal processors. We can start talking about something, seem to go off on other subjects, come back to the start, go back around and come to a completely different understanding or feeling about it. This is not being flaky, it is different way of processing than most males, but studies have found it actually often results in better decision making. Be able to speak and be heard will help her feel more balanced and valued. And you may just get some new insights.

At the very least it won't hurt and may just help. Of course you need time to open up and express in a non accusatory way, how her actions make you feel. Communication is key.

[oxy-moron]

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I feel for the last few years she is like an ice maiden for around 2 months!! (the previously mentioned once a month would be better than I am getting!) and then she is a sexy vamp (and off the scale!!) when she is in the mood but then goes cold on me again for another 8 weeks or so...I am left feeling (wrongly I know but I am human (and a bloke ;-) why do I bother trying to be nice and start shutting down and grumping around the house, well if being helpful, caring, etc does work then why bother?

Hi
The extra jobs around the house thing doesnt stack up with me- I had been doing a lot of stuff around the house since we started out. Many many years of housework and still got the ice maiden.
Instead of doing more jobs try more safe physical contact- stokes -massages - casual cuddles. Make sure they dont lead to sex or look like they are leading to sex.
When she vamps up- Make the sex less goal oriented.
Make it slow and with lots of physical contact. See how you feel about her after that. All of this will be manipulating yours and her mammalian circuitry.
You will become more amorous towards her and she will change her behaviour to you.
If you are doing it right the communication levels will be boosted naturally because you will be more interested in each other. You will start making better eye contact with her. I know you would think this would not work- but it does. But it does take time.

[Count Zero]

wiring

lol's... Me too




This is interesting, certainly you studied phychology, something I always wanted to do, but I read alot of books phychoannalizing, however, how many men (except it seems on this Forum) want to, actually know how each sex is wired? Not alot...

Yes, it's not stuff we blokes really think about naturally. I'm lucky in that I'm naturally curious about everything (except bookwork, tax and celebrities) and when I studied my class had a 5:1 female/male ratio, if you're observant in that environment, it makes you think. I do think we men need to think about these issues more as society changes gender roles. I do think women have much greater flexibility now, I'm not sure about us, we're more locked in to our old role as full time worker (and we're technically a minority!) One of my classmates suggested that if men wanted better choices, they need to get organised and work for it. I found her suggestion funny, not because it was wrong, but because we don't think/work like that at all!

Although I will include my fiancee in that... I agree, you made another statement further down, if a man is loved, smiled at, told he's special, made to feel loved, and provided with love intimately as well as wanting to grab him, at will, or as I do walk into the bathroom deliberately and say what? I just wanted to look He feels complete...How can you go wrong.

You haven't really said how we are wired

Ahh, I'm not sure I could, you are much more variable, and really think about things that we don't by default. Things like relationships, organising stuff and colour schemes! Hhmm, that's not meant to sound condescending or trivial, it's just stuff that we simply never think of. I concentrated on finding out what girls like, and then what my wife likes, not a general study of woman kind (capitals?), ooh, can men actually do women's studies at uni? I'm one of very few men I know who have read "The Beauty Myth" and discussed it with my study group, worth a look.

I'm hoping we can move past the confrontational stage we seem to be in, there really cannot be sides here as we're one species. We each have strengths and weaknesses, I think we'll have to move to the next stage where we accept the differences and work within them, pushing to change another is hard. I'm not saying we return to strict gender roles, but there are things I'm really good at, and then there are other areas where I'm best described as hopeless (I'll do the washing and ironing, but I cannot put them away in the drawers and cupboards, I do my stuff, but I can't get my head around the organisational system!) I'm happy to help my wife do all manner of things she finds hard, and she puts stuff into neat systems.

Breasts, butts, sure I think we hate, being immediately touched down there, it's sex...but a slap on the butt, or a view of our boobs, is more like, caveman, can't help himself, cute and makes us feel they look, and feel good....

As for shaving every part we desire of our body for a girls night out? Pride And, we are happy in ourselves and enjoy looking good, it's not for anyone but ourselves, unless we are not in love.

Ahh, good stuff, what do you mean by "unless we are not in love"?

CW

sometimes we are more similar than you'd think. A uni friend of mine pointed out that I track attractive women around me, I realised that it was true, but not conscious, we then watched the male classmates eyes and we all do it! It seems to be automatic, then she said that it wasn't just the boys, but we were far far more obvious, girls didn't tend to turn their heads to look, whereas we men turned our heads and then our whole bodies towards whatever has caught out interest!

[Count Zero]

------------------

I know this thread has been running for quite some time and to be honest I have only had a chance to read some of these posts but I can completely understand the original posting.

I too have tried hard to be helpful around the house and with our 3 kids, trying to give my wife the "me time" she seems to need, she see's her family at least 2-3 times a week (far more than I see my family). I by the way work full time and my wife is a house-wife, I completely understand the chores around the house can become boring, mundane, etc and feel never-ending, so I have tried to show apprciation for what is done around the house and she used to make mine and the kids lunches everyday (I now try to do them when I am not busy running the kids around to their friends or different clubs they belong to) and on occassion I have texted her while Im at work saying how delicious the sandwiches she made me were (this is only a minor thing but felt they were so tasty it would be good to tell her how much I enjoyed them). Her response to these texts have been somewhat muted and "why tell her I like the sandwiches"? response).

I used to buy her flowers only then to get the "usual" what have you been up to \ feeling guilty about something comments?

Was she joking and really smiling?

Us blokes dont really want that sort of response when we are trying to be nice. I texted the other day and said "I love you" but didnt get a response at all until I got home and she mentioned she got the message. I have also texted her a few times and she has delegated the kids to reply back to me which I find irritating. I've brought her up cups of tea when I have left for work and she is still in bed, told her she looks great, "that colour suits you", etc, etc But what I seem to get instead is overlooked when she is making a drink and just makes herself 1, goes to bed before me when I am busy or much later than me, so as to avoid going to bed together, gets dressed in another room or with her back to me (I am mixing up minor and important things here (rambling)), the list could go on.

I feel for the last few years she is like an ice maiden for around 2 months!! (the previously mentioned once a month would be better than I am getting!) and then she is a sexy vamp (and off the scale!!) when she is in the mood but then goes cold on me again for another 8 weeks or so...I am left feeling (wrongly I know but I am human (and a bloke ;-) why do I bother trying to be nice and start shutting down and grumping around the house, well if being helpful, caring, etc does work then why bother?

You need to get into counselling pronto! She sound's really turned off to you and disconnected. My marriage was saved by our sessions and I think my wife returning to work. I found taking some time for myself helped, your wife may not like/respect your conciliatory moves. I hit the gym/bike and insisted on the time, I work at least 70 hours a week and work around the house, you need some "bloke time", plus exercise makes you feel better.

Can you see yourself where you are for decades to come? I couldn't, and this shocked my wife, she saw how unhappy I was and we are now really improving with help from our counselling. Your wife may not see a problem, she also may have a medical condition affecting her hormones, perhaps she's one the wrong medication? (including the pill, one of my friends went psycho when she took yasmin!)

Get some help mate!

[Tod121]

Hi, great advice from you all! I have tried to be more caring and attentive and it sometimes works a treat, other times I just get shrugged off! Like was said earlier, it may just take time. I have in the past suggested that we should get some counciling but again she refused it saying we didnt need a nobody telling us what to do and she was not prepared to discuss our personal matters with someone else; I thought she could hear suggestions from someone else which might make her stop and reflect and I would be very open to hear what I could do to improve things too (no one is perfect and I except I could probably do more). Many people around me, family and work colleagues have suggested going back to work would help but she does not like socialising much and if I tentatively mention getting a job she freaks. I feel she would benefit on a personal level and would of course save us from our dire financial situation. We are currently in a good place; I bought her flowers yesterday and they were well received and we are closer at the moment, just hope it lasts......

[snowflakes242]

I have the same problem been maried 17 years my husband went abroad to work for 3 years only saw him 8 weeks of the year and the sex life was just no their we tried but it just wasnt the same after a year of this i started having an affair sex is unbelievable when my husband returned we tried to resume our sex life but there but i felt nothing now i am stuck stay with husband and no sex or stay with my affair and have plenty

[spurzzz]

I have the same problem been maried 17 years my husband went abroad to work for 3 years only saw him 8 weeks of the year and the sex life was just no their we tried but it just wasnt the same after a year of this i started having an affair sex is unbelievable when my husband returned we tried to resume our sex life but there but i felt nothing now i am stuck stay with husband and no sex or stay with my affair and have plenty

You say it as if you are proud, which makes me think what a lovely catch your husband has...

There is NEVER a good excuse to have an affair and if you are serious about posing a dilemma that states whether your in two minds about stopping the affair because of the sex than I strongly suggest you get some counselling.....or file for a divorce and do your husband a favour.

[rcoreyus]

I'm not sure I agree that there is never a good reason to have an affair. If you have a great relationship with someone, but they have no interest in sex, why is an affair so bad? Is it really worse than leaving the person you love and who loves you?