[oxy-moron]

oxymoron,
We dont sit together much after dinner, she hits one TV, I hit another. We will sometimes sit next to each other socially. NO, she definitely would not press into me when not expecting. She never initiates a hug, kiss or very little.
I like the foot rub idea. But heres what would happen: In my wifes eyes, foot rub means sex is next, so she wont allow it. Even if I promise her that I wont pursue sex. Honestly, after a while you just get frekin' tired of trying to figure out all the things you need to do in order to not do or say anything wrong so that your not shut out for the next month to three. I really envy all the guys out there that have women who are into their husbands.
Again, Im no saint. Ive done things wrong in our relationship. But, geez...... how long does a guy hang in there. Honestly, the idea of divorcing just makes me sick. Not only the whole kid and financial thing, but also the fact of failure and also that I do love this woman. Both of us have said though how long should we hang on, we dont want to be 50- 55 and be 20-25 years in before we finally say enough is enough.

I think you have your work cut out for you.
Try starting off with some casual touch- walk up and ask for a hug.
Break her down slowly-

[Guest]

Nyx, you make some good points, but I think that men have higher sex drives "generally" than women. Why? because we have more testosterone in our bodies and that is a major influencing factor. Also, we constantly hear about how women like to be complimented, re-assured, wined,dined and all the other build up that necessary sometimes to even get her in the mood. But what about the other way round ? When do we hear about women that try all these things and the man isn't interested? Does any partner have to go through all this just because they want sex? Now, ladies, please, again I re-iterate this point, and we I think must always bear it in mind. You (ladies) here are by no means the norm. The vast majority of women would not come onto this website to try to solve sexual or other issues. You(ladies) are ones that we can relate to. Ones we would get on well with. But there are a lot of your sisters out there completely different to you.

[WildChild]

Thomas the same could be said of the men here. Believe me there are a lot of men in the world who have no interest in listening to a woman or in creating a loving, caring, mutually satisfying relationship. At the same time I think there are many people of both genders who have just never been encouraged to open up to the possibility of a different and better kind of relationship.

[nyx]

Thomas, I COMPLETELY agree that men are expected to initiate sex. I was just upset that we seemed to all be posting things like "women do this and men do that." It all seemed so pointless. Don't men not like being wined and dined and complimented? If they don't then I sure have been wasting a lot of time. It has been my experience that you do things for and with your partner be they man or woman. I just feel like men and women all want the same thing, but definitely none of us want to be rejected.
I guess I don't have any real advice for the people with these problems. I just felt like the WAY we were saying things was incorrect. All of us came here to fix our problems and the solutions are what we should be focusing on.

[WildChild]

The important thing is having balance in the relationship. Perhaps the man 'wines and dines and compliments' a woman but she makes certain that she looks her best for him and cooks for him and scouts up some information he was wanting. He may fix her car or take care of a maintenance issue for her while she sets up appointments for him or takes care of returning something there was a problem with. It may not be *** for tat but it works and both get what they want or need in a relationship that works.

Problems arise when it gets out of balance and communication breaks down. In the normal course of things there may be times when one gives more and the other receives more but over time that should balance out. If it doesn't then resentment can build and bad habits get formed. One may start to demand to receive without being willing to give. Then a sense of entitlement takes over.

Part of this is a matter of perspective. In a now fading relationship model, men ruled, women were submissive to men's requirements, men were expected to provide materially and financially while women were expected to handle all the household chores, cleaning, cooking, sewing, child rearing and other "women' work". If the couple were loving, caring and respectful of each other then this model worked with certain parameters. Both were constrained in what they could do and how they could express themselves in life. Men were seen as sexual and women as simply 'submitting' to his sexual 'needs' with out any real pleasure in it. Now we have more options and a different understanding but we still have some expectations left over from this earlier model and we are still figuring out how to make it all work.

We all carry some messages from the past. They have been passed down through the generations and through societal training. Some of these are very damaging to relationships. We hold deeply embedded ideas that we may not be consciously aware of, things like; mothers/parents aren't sexual people, romance dies after the honeymoon is over, over 30,40,50, is over the hill, 25 is twice as sexy as 50, "nice/good' women don't...(you name it - enjoy sex, like their bodies, have fun, be playful), the list could go on and on. These idea can kill the joy and pleasure in a relationship and what is left are the expected roles you play.

So many people seem to live without awareness, with no consciousness. They don't know why they do what they do, or don't do. They just do or don't. There is no real, rational reason. There is usually no joy in it. Their lives are dry, parched and they try to make everyone around them as dehydrated as they are. Its really very sad and pointless. You can choose not to live this way but many people around you will try to push you back into sharing their misery. Ultimately you will have to decide how you want live. You can choose to be happy, just because you choose to. But it will become very difficult to stay around the people who choose to live otherwise and to stay with those who cannot value and appreciate choosing to be happy. They will suck the juice right out of your life if you choose to let them. But its your choice. What are you willing to live with?

[Guest]

Absolutely ladies, WC & Nyx. Well put ! It should always be a well balanced relationship. xx

[Texasred]

...One time I tried something different when we were having that odd sex moment and she said "just get on with it". She some years later, when we were discussing this thing, said "you never tried again"...

Those are the kind of words that stick in your head, aren't they?
Reminds me of the time a couple of years ago, as my wife and I were lying together, my arms around her, after one of our very rare lovemaking sessions: I told her that the feeling of intimacy afterwards was one of my very favorite things, and I asked her if she felt that way too.
Her reply?
"Not so much."
So what do I think about initiating sex with her anymore?
"Not so much."

[Guest]

IF at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again.

[ItsASecret]

IF at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again.

Like the ones that have tried for weeks, months, years and still end up with nothing close to a "success"? I agree that people need to at least keep trying, it could work but if it has been a prolonged period of time the chances of reviving things are pretty slim simply due to the other partner not wanting anything. There are some that will say "you are doing it wrong it should work", no response to a stimulus is no response, there can be no forced response. And if it is a forced response it is not the response a person was hoping for to begin with. Some people are genuinely not interested in sex, trying to make them into a vixen or a knight in shinning armor even though they clearly have no interest in doing so is not going to work.

[WildChild]

There is that saying about the definition of insanity; you keep trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. There is nothing wrong with continuing to try but if what you are doing isn't working you need to try something different.

You can't make someone else change, not really, they may appear to in order to appease you or keep peace but real change in them has to come from them. What you can do is change how you interact and respond to them and in many cases that will change how they respond to you. That doesn't mean you will get what you want but at least you may get out of the rut and increase the chances of getting some different insights.