[AngelicBunny]

no, it's not.

that comment about young people learning sexuality from porn can't be overstated. most porn is tailored for guys & the girls are treated like ****s. nothing wrong with being a little ****ty with your husband - but the girls in porn are treated like objects. it is absolutely lacking anything that would be fulfilling for a woman.

this is what young girls & boys are learning is normal.

I agree. It degrades women, and makes it seem okay for men to have sex with them as though they wer eobjects. For me, I wouldn't enjoy sex if it was just sex, I'd only enjoy it with the man I love. It's so much better. Of course, the '****ty fun' can be fun but again, only with the man I love.

[AngelicBunny]

Porn & addiction...sex out of context
On a cold, dark night, there's nothing better than a blazing fire in the fireplace. You can pile on the wood and let it burn nice and warm. It's safe, warm, relaxing and romantic. Now take that same fire out of the fireplace (which was built for it) and drop it in the middle of the living room. Suddenly it becomes destructive. It can burn down the whole house and kill everyone inside. Sex is like that fire. As long as it's expressed in the protective commitment of a marriage relationship, it's wonderful, warm and romantic. But porn takes sex outside that context.

Porn's Image of Sex
One of the most vital parts of mental environment is a healthy idea of who we are sexually. If these ideas are polluted, a critical part of who we are becomes twisted. The porn culture tells you that sex, love and intimacy are all the same thing. In porn, people have sex with total strangers -- people they just met. All that matters is my satisfaction. It doesn't matter whose body I'm using, as long as I get it. Porn gets you to think that sex is something you can have anytime, anywhere, with anyone, with no consequences.

What Sex is Really About
The problem with porn's shallow perspective is that relationships are not built on sex, but on commitment, caring and mutual trust. In that context, like fire in the fireplace, sex is wonderful. Being with someone who loves and accepts you, someone who is committed to you for your whole lives together, someone you can give yourself completely to, that is what makes sex really great.

That is exactly how I feel about it. Sex is the kind of thing I wouldn't share with anybody else. I enjoy it because it is with someone who I've given myself to, and they've returned that. We love each other, and accept each other, and would never dream of being with anyone else. We have only had sex with each other, and only ever kissed each other (although that guy that likes porn, I said in a previous post did try to kiss him... gosh he freaks me out... I think he wanted to learn how to kiss...)

I loved reading your post. I agreed with everything in it.

[AngelicBunny]

do not tell me what to do!

also i do not care what one person says, one person does not prove what is right!

YOU are the the one who started to make up stupid generalizations about porn.

porn does not cause rape! rape was around long before porn!
if you knew anything about men who rape, you would know it is more about control than sex!

anyway carry on with your pointless anti porn crusade you will change nothing.

you have your view i have mine! at least i am happy in my life and not eating myself up because people like porn.

At the end of the day, yes that's what it's about. We can't change anyone's minds. As long as you're happy with life, isn't that all that matters? It is true that rape was here long before porn, and I agree that it does not cause rape. However, it is also true that not all men look at porn. If my boyfriend did, I wouldn't agree with it, it would upset me because I would see it as though I was just an object to him, for him to have sex with. I think this and I am not religious, in fact I am strongly against religion. Although, if he wanted to look at porn, and he were happy with it, fine. Even if he wanted to though, he couldn't... for a number of reasons...

You are right though, loads of people look at porn. We can't change that, and it will never be changed.

[reesecup]

A forum is used to allow individuals to express their thoughts, ask questions and hold discussions; yet it seems that this thread has created very heated debates. Please allow me to opine....

There were several "opinions" that were stated that caused a stir in me regarding pornography and its contribution to the degradation of women, being linked to how rapists begin, etc, etc. Let me first start out that I, along with my husband, watch pornography...together and sometimes separately. I am not a sadist, I don't secretly crave children nor is it harming my marriage. Now don't get me wrong, porn CAN depict your views in how sex should be..if you let it. As with anything, it takes someone with a weak mind to allow something to consume their thoughts that the only thing that they know to be truth is what they see or hear. For example, if you listen to rap music, and you allow the lyrics to consume you and you belive that calling a female a b**** is appropriate, or selling drugs is the only way to make money, then you are weak minded. You cannot blame the music industry for the rise in drug trafficting. Moreso, if someone watches the Sopranos or Desparate Housewives and comes to the conclusion that all Italians behave in that manner or every housewife is willing to sleep with their neighbor, it is due to that individual not being able to separate fact from fiction. Hence, watching porn is simply used for entertainment purposes only. It does not create the stigma that is the only way to have sex, it mearly provides a visual stimulus for those that may need something more.; and there was a study (of course there is a scientific study for anything to validate what you want to believe) that individuals that watched porn (both women and men) were physically stimulated by what they viewed. And this came from people that claimed to be so turned off by watching porn {they test subjects were hooked up to a machine that measured certain dynamics, such as increase in heartbeat, etc and while they believed that they were replused, their body reacted differently...anyway, I digress}

If a woman feels insecure about herself because of how the women are depicted in porn (then it is just as easy to feel insecure about yourself when watching commercials, looking in magazines or looking at movies because women are/have always been depicted as a certain image). Porn, like anything, is a pesonal choice. Yes, it can be degrading, just as music lyrics in rap, country, and heavy metal; Just as watching movies that "spoof" African Americans and any other race, and just as reading a lot of threads on this forum that get pretty ugly. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

[SamIAm]

QUESTIONS TO THINK ABOUT...

1-What beneficial attributes does porn offer to you, OTHER than simply it's aid in sexual release?

2-What beneficial attributes does a loving, monogamous, passionate, sensual relationship, WITHOUT the involvement of porn, offer you?

3-Whatever happened to positive qualities in humans such as.....INTEGRITY, MORALITY, VIRTUE, HONOUR, CLASSINESS AND REFINEMENT?

4-Do you observe ANY of these characteristics in porn producers/actors/actresses/viewers?

5-Finally, how do you think mass production of porn and it's increasing levels of brutality will affect our future generations and the fate of the world in general?


A big thank you to whilhelm and others making a stand against porn. I believe you truly display the positive qualities mentioned above... I find it so amazing that here is a man standing up against demeaning behaviour towards women, and yet it appears many of the women in this thread seem to want to justify these humiliating actions and see nothing wrong with them.
Ironically, these are probably the same women who expect men to provide for them, pay for the meal and open the car door for them....

[Iseult]

Really? educated people I've met find porn degrading to women... they don't think it's evil they think it objectifies women... and these are usually men that tell me that.

Just because porn is of people having sex, that is not why people think it's evil. It's the fact that it seems to make people think it's okay to treat women like objects. There's a guy I know, who's seems to think a woman's brains work differently to his, for example he told my bpyfriend that women are confusing, they tell you they like something when they don't, and hate something when they like it. I don't understand why someone would do that...

He also seemed to think it was okay to take pictures of my **** on his phone, and video my ****, poke my breast, grab me and hold my arms open for this boy (some creepy staker guy who liked me at the time) stares at my chest when I talk to him, laughs at anything I say and makes out it was the most hilarious thing he's heard a girl say, talks in a voice he talks to 2 year olds with, and put his hand on my seat waiting for me to sit on it - he did these things whilst I was going out with his own best friend - it's a serious relationship too (I'm sorry... but that's just wrong, it's not even like anyone would ever go out with him, and I have been told by a close friend of his that he hasn't hit puberty, and he's about 17) . This is someone who likes to watch porn. He thinks men are supposed to watch it. He also thinks that when a woman's aroused, her vagina gets tighter so the man gets more pleasure. He will only go out with 14 year olds, he says their curves are in the right places... I find this creepy and hope he does not become a phedophile... (14 year olds count don't they? if you're like a 40 year old man? I dunno... my friends think so...)

Does this sound like an educated person?

I'm sorry you have the misfortune to know somebody like this. Yes, that man is a child sex-offender if he has sex with fourteen year-old girls. Although the word 'paedophile' actually refers to an attraction to girls who are pre-pubescent which excludes many fourteen year-olds, as many of them have already reached puberty by that point, they are still children, nonetheless. I don't know where you live, but if it is a country in which having sex with a minor earns a person a conviction of statutory rape, I would hope that you have or are intending to report him. Men like him should not be permitted to ruin children's lives because people wish to turn a blind eye. As for you, if he touches you without permission, you are well within your rights to press charges for sexual assault. I would exercise that right if I were you.

Now, on to the subject of porn, I very much doubt that porn turned this man in to a child sex-offender and general creep; it sounds like he has a very deep-rooted misogyny which he may use certain types of porn to feed. I have many, many male friends, all of whom watch porn in some variety or other and I am pleased to say that not only are they extremely intelligent, but they would never dream of objectifying women. They would never touch a woman inappropriately as they do not have the desire and they know they do not have the right. Unlike that man you know, they would certainly never have sex with children or feel the most remote desire to do so. I don't think porn creates monsters, I do think, however, that certain types of porn can be used to justify misogyny. This brings me on to my next point:

Pornography is a term that encompasses a multitude of attitudes and interactions between men and women, men and men and women and women. Different types of porn exist to appeal to different tastes. It's not all a case of 'see a girl who looks under-age being thrown about and called a **** by five men'. Just as the concept of 'sex' is comprised of a plethora of different tastes, attitudes, techniques, and motivation, so too is the pornography that is designed to both emulate and inspire all those different things. If all pornography consisted only of the type that shows bully-boys abusing women, I would have nothing to do with it, as it not only leaves me cold, but also leaves a nasty taste in my mouth; but luckily that is just one tiny fragment of the whole. There are other types that do cater for my tastes and they don't involve women being demeaned.

Just one other thing, some of the contributors in this argument seem to have lumped submission in with degradation, which is very misguided. In S&M, to be submissive does not equate to a loss of dignity or being powerless to prevent abuse. A Sub (like myself) has a very trusting relationship with their dominant partner. That trust is necessary because although aspects of pain can be involved with play, everything that happens depends on what the Sub wants, not the Dom. If a Sub doesn't want to be treated a certain way, their Dom would not do it. The last thing a good Dom would ever want is to cause their submissive partner distress. That is not what it is about. S&M porn reflects this trusting relationship exactly and although I can see why some people outside this genre of sexual activity might mistake submission for degradation, their perception is most certainly erroneous.

[Guest]

A forum is used to allow individuals to express their thoughts, ask questions and hold discussions; yet it seems that this thread has created very heated debates. Please allow me to opine....

There were several "opinions" that were stated that caused a stir in me regarding pornography and its contribution to the degradation of women, being linked to how rapists begin, etc, etc. Let me first start out that I, along with my husband, watch pornography...together and sometimes separately. I am not a sadist, I don't secretly crave children nor is it harming my marriage. Now don't get me wrong, porn CAN depict your views in how sex should be..if you let it. As with anything, it takes someone with a weak mind to allow something to consume their thoughts that the only thing that they know to be truth is what they see or hear. For example, if you listen to rap music, and you allow the lyrics to consume you and you belive that calling a female a b**** is appropriate, or selling drugs is the only way to make money, then you are weak minded. You cannot blame the music industry for the rise in drug trafficting. Moreso, if someone watches the Sopranos or Desparate Housewives and comes to the conclusion that all Italians behave in that manner or every housewife is willing to sleep with their neighbor, it is due to that individual not being able to separate fact from fiction. Hence, watching porn is simply used for entertainment purposes only. It does not create the stigma that is the only way to have sex, it mearly provides a visual stimulus for those that may need something more.; and there was a study (of course there is a scientific study for anything to validate what you want to believe) that individuals that watched porn (both women and men) were physically stimulated by what they viewed. And this came from people that claimed to be so turned off by watching porn {they test subjects were hooked up to a machine that measured certain dynamics, such as increase in heartbeat, etc and while they believed that they were replused, their body reacted differently...anyway, I digress}

If a woman feels insecure about herself because of how the women are depicted in porn (then it is just as easy to feel insecure about yourself when watching commercials, looking in magazines or looking at movies because women are/have always been depicted as a certain image). Porn, like anything, is a pesonal choice. Yes, it can be degrading, just as music lyrics in rap, country, and heavy metal; Just as watching movies that "spoof" African Americans and any other race, and just as reading a lot of threads on this forum that get pretty ugly. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

great response. i just want to highlight a few of what i believe are the classic fallacies regarding this debate:

"...it mearly provides a visual stimulus for those that may need something more..."

you're exactly right. and in this respect, porn is fun. this is precisely the reason so many women, rightly, feel insecure about their husbands being involved with it. i guess i'm speaking on behalf of women, in general, which is dangerous - but...

i believe a woman's desire is to be THE desire of her husband. the fact that he "needs something more" not only feels like a problem, it is a problem. and a lie.

he doesn't need something more. he wants something more.



"Hence, watching porn is simply used for entertainment purposes only."

i believe i've documented that the girls used in porn are - well, used. they're treated like trash, purposely. pornographers themselves boast that fact.

so i would say that your entertainment is not worth the cost of even ONE life being trashed along the way to producing your porn.

may not hurt you. might even be fun for you. that simply doesn't justify the reckless abuse of the soul of the young girl who was used to make the movie you enjoyed watching with your husband.

this has always been my favorite:

"If you don't like it, don't watch it."

this is probably the most widespread rebuttal of the antiporn sentiment. simple and profound. "free country. you don't like it? you don't have to watch it."

that's very true. and it might solve the problem if the only problem were that porn offended some people.

given the scope of porn's pervasive ability to destroy the lives of many viewers and performers, however, this statement is a lot like saying, "if you don't like the laws the administration is making, you don't have to vote."

it's irresponsible, at best. it's also a thinly veiled attempt to get people who oppose a view out of the way. "We're coming through - if you don't like it, you can turn the other way."

Well, no. I think I'll stay squarely IN your way & hopefully impede your progress as much as possible.

More than I would want to argue your freedom to enjoy porn, your freedom to choose to DO porn, your freedom to make & distribute porn, whether or not porn is harmful to you, specifically - these all pale in comparison to this, in fact, they're just worthless diversions that would turn our attention from this fact:

No woman was put on this earth to be hurt or humiliated in order to facilitate someone's masturbation.

The lives of the girls the industry is using are worth infinitely more than your entertainment.

[Guest]

Ironically, these are probably the same women who expect men to provide for them, pay for the meal and open the car door for them....

And there are no men who watch porn and would do that for a woman?

[Guest]

And there are no men who watch porn and would do that for a woman?

i could be wrong here, but i think this was indicating the apparent contradiction between a woman expecting to be treated with respect & dignity, but having no problem with girls in porn being treated with no respect or dignity.

"hold the door for me, take me to dinner, treat me like a princess.

then let's snuggle up together & enjoy watching girls being degraded on the internet..."

[Guest]

I know. I was making another point.