[Fallen1]

When I read posts that men like women with bigger breasts (or perkier, or bouncer, etc) or women prefer men with larger penis (or smaller penises, etc.) it has clear overtones of making people into things. For example, when I read the last post by beautiful disaster (post 97) it sounds like people are shopping for the exact right things for them sexually (e.g. certain size breasts, certain size penises) – just like shopping for electronics at the local Wal-mart. One woman wants a guy with a straight penis, another with a curved one. Another person can report – without shame –that only a larger man with a 7 inches penis will do (men that are smaller or lesser) and others claim their boyfriends are even bigger, having a 10 inch penis. Likewise, with men and how they cut women into object-pieces for their desires. What people like Beautiful Disaster are calling personal preferences I am calling self-centered commidification/objectification of people. People and the development of relationships are not like shopping for a new car where you can order the exact bells and whistles to your own personal liking. So, I see many posts here that are pretty damaging. In my mind, relationships should be about learning about other people and accepting them for who they are, not seeing them as a body of commodifications for one’s person services. I think a healthier life is to fall in love with someone and then accept whatever they have. I feel in love with a woman and then accepted her breast size because that is who she is (regardless of her breast size, be I small or larger, or how bounce). I did not cut her into pieces for my liking. Likewise, my wife fell in love with me due to my personality, not because I’m larger or smaller between the legs.

I think you are way off on how you have interpreted BD's response. It's as though you totally missed the parts I've highlighted in her post below.

1. Most heterosexual men like vaginas and/or butts and/or breasts. Some of these heterosexual men like small labia, some like big labia, some like pink labia, some like darker labia, some like shaved, some like unshaved, some like round large butts, someone like small skinny butts, some like DD breasts, some like small A breasts. Some men like a smaller framed woman, some men like a curvier "more cushioned" woman. I would say, however, that most men would not turn away a woman they loved or cared deeply for if her labia wasn't exactly what he typically preferred. Or if her boobs weren't quite as large or small as he preferred.

2. Most heterosexual women like penises and/or backs and/or arms etc. Some of these heterosexual women like average sized penises, some like smaller than average, some like larger than average. Some like circumsized, some like uncircumsized. Some like straight penises, some like curved penises. Some like big broad shoulders, some prefer a smaller frame. Some like muscular arms, some prefer less muscular. I would also say, however, that most women would not turn away a man they loved or cared deeply for if any of these things weren't exactly what she typically preferred.

As she states EVERYONE has their preferences but that doesn't necessarily dictate who your partner in life will be.

You and your wife may have fell in love with each other for your personalities but there was something there that attracted you to each other in the first place.

[Ashlee T.]

Skippy - The point behind ALL that you just said comes through as this: physical attraction is BAD. BAD BAD SHAME ON YOU SELFISH SELF SATISFYING PEOPLE! Get real....we're humans, we are not robots. We have preferences in things we like on a physical level. Call it what you will, but if you have EVER enjoyed looking at a womans breasts aside from your wife, or if you have EVER enjoyed looking at a nice rear walking by, then you are a hypocrit. Have you? Because whether you intend it or not, what you're saying is that if we, humans, find ourselves attracted to ANYTHING other than a persons brain we are shallow, self serving, low level individuals.

[ItsASecret]

Before i leave, in regard to ego development, you are right there are many different theories of ego development. I am referring to the work of Dr. Stuart Hauser in his book “Adolescents and their families.” To Dr. Hauser, low ego development – which he calls the impulsive stage – is focused on self gratification where self is at the center or all relationships. The higher stages – known as the autonomous stage – is when people think and act on the behalf of others, in that they can make personal changes to accommodate others.

Oh Dr. Stuart Hauser, that man bases pretty much everything off of Jane Loevinger. I have probably read that book in one of my classes...but the material been there done that the material is boring lol. This annoying low-ego "impulsive" developmental stage is first established in children and is geared toward the immature "gimme gimme" or "that is right and that is wrong" because they are very much so in that "I want attention" type stage.

If an adult maintains low ego development then it is not just self-gratification in the sense of their behaviors with for example: "big boobs wicked!!! This is the best I love them and no other!!!" it also layers in social-cognitive interaction including combative interactions (arguing because the person is correct and not others), inability to hear another person out, talking around issues and matters, ignoring opinions, impulsive nature of establishing that their opinion is correct and others basically do not know what they are talking about and things of that nature...I am sure others get the idea, just that general adult that is basing everything on themselves just like the low-ego states as a sort of "self" obsession per-se. Those "all about me" thoughts go beyond thinking that for example big boobs are the best and only thing they like. All those personality type traits are present in the in child. Spend 10 minutes with a kid and you can see those aspects of hitting is bad, petting kitty is good, "No! I don't want to", or temper-tantrums and so on...it is the child at that stage when it is all about them. But with adults, and even children, not all aspects are absolutely required to place an individual in that stage. A child may never throw a temper-tantrum but still expect that they get their way, and an adult male may not say "big boobs are the only thing I like" but he may still be very stuck on his opinions being the correct one and impulsively interact with others in arguments.

The adults in low-ego are basically unable to hear anyone else out because it is always about them, they are extremely ego-centric, their opinions are the ones that count and anything else has a flaw in it that cannot be true, they are impulsive and act out, and they may avoid people just because they know hostility can come out of it. There are not too many adults in this stage in comparison to the higher level growth because adults tend to 'grow up' and enter that autonomous stage (this just means they are able to open up more to opinion and subjects because they have grown).

[Guest]

I am uncertain if I should reply back since the collective feels like I should disengage, yet there are people still asking me questions. So, let me reply back and if you want to continue in chat, I will continue (but at a much slower rate). If you want to disengage, just don’t reply.

Fallen:

You may have been right – to a certain degree – that I may have missed the latter part of beautiful disasters reply.

Beautiful Disaster:

Please accept my apology for missing the part that Fallen has outlined in red.
But with that said, I still think that too many people look at relationships like they are shopping for commodities and priories sexual objects attached to a person, such as having a larger penis (or breasts). There have been a few people on this thread who have commented that it’s ok for women to care about penis size outside of the norms (be it smaller or larger) – but I think such preferences hurt others. It can hurt men who really are smaller or larger. Perhaps I went a little over-board on your post, but it did have overtones of seeing relationships as shopping for electronic goods!
In regard to your last post, since being married, I have never looked and enjoy the sexual attributes of another woman. Have I noticed such body parts in the general way – sure? I have noticed – in a general way just like hair color, that a woman with really large breasts has really large breasts. But I have never enjoyed looking or ever been in a stay of enjoying looking or wishing for changes on my wife. NEVER.

Further, I am not saying all physical attraction is bad. Because I value health and fitness, I like the fact that my wife exercises and is healthy – we both want to live longer and have a great retirement time in our lives, with travel. But I am saying that it is bad (psychological harm) to prefer sexual attributes. No man should dismiss women due to breast size – even if she is flat as a board or has huge watermelons. Likewise, no women should have preferences to penis size. Unlike other body and personality traits (e.g., weight, humor) we really have no control on making penises and breasts a certain way (other than breast surgery – which is a really bizarre concept to me – as I have outlined in other threads).

I hope I make sense and again I apologies for missing sections of your posts.

[GoLeftThenRight]

Ahhh, finally, the penis length thread. A couple of comments:

Hobbes was right. Life is Nasty, Brutish, and Short. And because we're all afraid of finding our lives meaningless and our end coming like a short, squashed like a bug on the windscreen of a moving car, we OBSESS about things that have ZERO relevance to true happiness. Eleven pages on penis length. Really now. In the time it took to read this thread, I could have had sex and been able to laugh it off.

Further, Maslow was right about one thing, and that is this: We all want to be appreciated. No matter how big or small the ego, how successful, or unsuccessful, we all want to be feel appreciated. Madison Avenue, and the porn industry, are preaching the penis size thing and guess what? It's just not true.

It only took a few females in for a girl to wisely say, "there is such a thing as too big." That's pretty much all a SANE and CONFIDENT guy needs to hear. And most SANE and Confident guys are smart enough to know that size queens are simply people whose values are out of place. So live your own life and quit worrying about how you measure up.

[GoLeftThenRight]

All this being said, I'll respond to one of Little's comments:

Having bedded over 50+ women, I'll say that few were afraid to have frank discussions about penis size. Most told me entirely more than I wanted to hear, either about me or about their previous boyfriends. Oh well.

One in particular stuck out. I hooked up with a girl that was engaged to another guy. I knew the guy, he was at least 6'4, 250+. I'm under 6ft and 200lbs. I wasn't aware they were engaged, but she was shallow and looking for a reason to get out of the deal, and I just happened to be there at the right time. After we had sex, she told me she had several orgasms and that she wasn't having orgasms with the fiance because he was simply too big. Went on and on about how big it was. Pretty much telling me I was smaller and at least by an inch. Granted, it might have been more reasons than that, but the point was, there is something to be said for FIT, rather than size, because it was mine that gave her an orgasm. Bottom Line: If you're too big, she simply may not enjoy it.

That graph is spot on. in my experience, most things boil down to bell curves. I do that for a living. z-score, t-score, probability. Standard Deviation. I firmly believe that average is about right. I've had women complain and I've had women I thought, "****, this is loose." It cuts both ways. But I'm pretty confident I'm close enough to average that it shouldn't matter. It's what else I'm doing that will make her happy.

Every male alive should understand the definition of tactile stimulation. For example, if you can tease a woman appropriately and make her WANT your penis, it's far better than having nine inches. It's all about how your penis makes her feel, men. If you don't know how to stimulate her with it, it won't matter how big it is. End of discussion.

[jns]

It only took a few females in for a girl to wisely say, "there is such a thing as too big."

I am having trouble finding this quote. Will you kindly point me to it's source?

[GoLeftThenRight]

Look up the cervix pain comments...that's what I meant, sorry..

[chaya]

I don't know how long my husband's.. is but judging by how much is still on the outside when I'm already in pain, I'd say it's about 2-3 inches too long.

[Joe77]

Guy's $0.02 here. I believe based on measurements, etc that I am just about exactly average sized. That said, I think 90% of guys fall within less than an inch in length and a half inch in circumference of one another. It's only the outliers at each end that are all that different, i.e., micropenis, vs. Ron Jeremy, etc.

From my perspective, I think size only might matter from an orgasmic standpoint for women who have g-spot vaginal orgasms on a frequent basis, but for many women there is a "too big" point, in the sense that he would hit her cervix too easily.