[Obelisk]

For someone that is trying to be a perfectionist on this and has adopted ladder theory, it's odd that you make this huge mistake. It's not even anatomically equivalent, let alone culturally or even stereotypically.

The stereotype is of the rich/famous/powerful old man going for the shapely young women. In that case the equivalent to the female body would be money, fame, and power. Culturally that holds. Things are changing as women become more wealthy and empowered in their own right, but it's not the penis that they're going for. It's abs or a handsome face or a certain body type, just keeping it to the physical. But they're also looking for a man who has the emotional make-up that they want. They don't have to put up with a brute anymore because he provides.

The female equivalent to the male genitals is the female genitals. They care about as much as we do. Not much. Of course, there are some people that have a fetish for really tight vaginas, really loose ones, long labia, or a preference for short neat ones. Their preferences aren't irrelevant because they're in the minority, but they are in the minority. Unless a woman has one of those men and lacks the corresponding feature OR her privates are causing a functional problem, she doesn't really need to worry even if her man may have a slight preference. It just does not matter enough. It's the same with penises.

And lizzard brought up such a good point about average and small breasts. You penis people are really ignoring the power of small and average. A lot of the women keep telling you and you keep ignoring it. You mentioned C and D cups as large breasts, but those are considered average nowadays. The really large ones do look great at times if they're presented well, but not always. What they do best is get attention. Once you get them out of the bra, they don't hold up as well. I can tell you for a fact that the most attractive ones I've had the pleasure with were average size. The largest ones were the most unattractive. I loved them all because I love breasts and women. I could have found a place in my life for any of them and been happy if the character would have lined up. It's the same with women. We're not all that different.

Ok I really did want to be done with this topic.

Instead of trying to answer individually I think I will just give you what I believe now in a general sense.

Let's start with the Ladder Theory.

First of all I believe it works at a subconscious level in all of us. No man ever sits there reasoning "hmm, I think that shapely woman is going to get me aroused". No, it simply happens. Just like a woman does not reason why a muscular man get her aroused.

From an evolutionary point of view (and I understand that these are all theories, and not really 100% proven, but it's what we have for now), the male is supposed to protect the female, and reproduce with her. So our instincts seek qualities in the female that will work toward those goals, and that's basically how hot she is, and how quickly do we believe we can get her in the sack (again, this is instinctive).

A woman's instinctive process is more along the lines of balancing "can he protect? can he provide?". This is why a woman will assess a man's looks and ability to provide, and this is why looks + power/money matter more to a woman than it does to a man.

That's all the ladder theory is about man. That's it.

As far as breast size, well, I consider c and d cups on the larger side. a and b cups on the smaller side. I don't believe men that say they prefer smaller. I think it's a conditioned response because we get clobbered by society if we say otherwise, because we're being "shallow".

With that said, if a woman is hot and has only b cups, or if the same woman had d cups, it would hardly be a deal breaker for me. I care, but not that much. I've experienced going from c to b, and yes there was a difference for me. I missed the larger size a little bit. Not enough to matter much, but the loss was there.

So with women and penis size, I think most would prefer larger (we're not talking about 10" here, but let's say bigger that 6"). This of course depends on their own size and what they know is comfortable and uncomfortable.

I imagine, for most, that if they ended up with a guy smaller than what they find ideal, it would probably not be a "huge" loss, but there would be a loss.

I don't care about things that compensate for it. Anybody can fall in love with anyone else, so to me that means nothing. Facts is what I deal with.

So for me the facts are as follows:

Putting scientific studies together, added to what women with a lot of sexual experience are saying (swingers for example), it seems that 60% of men fall within "average" (between 5" and 6"). Maybe around 20% of men are 7" or larger (out of that, maybe 10% are really large, over 8"). Another 20% are smaller than average (under 5")

So assuming that a woman has had 10 partners, she's likely to have had 1 partner with 8" and one or two with 4" (assuming a mathematically even split in percentages).

So now we have to take into account what the woman's ideal size for her is. I have no data on this, except that it does seem that asian women tend to be smaller, and black women do tend to be bigger.

So an asian woman might find anything larger than 6" uncomfortable. For her, 4" might be ideal. A black woman might find 8" ideal, and anything less than 6" lacking.

I'm not trying to single out races btw, but it's clear that evolution did fit races for their purpose (making asian men smaller for example, but with matching small asian women, etc)

Height also is a big factor. A short woman is twice as likely to be smaller down there also (there's always exceptions of course).


Does any of this matter? I think it does. Would a guy who has 8" like to end up with a woman who can only fit 5" inside her? Sex will always be uncomfortable for both of them. What about the reverse. What if a woman likes 8" but her man only has 4"

I know nobody wants to talk about this, because "love conquers all", but why not deal with it as best as possible beforehand?

[Stillness]

You're also the one who started 3 (maybe?) threads about this topic.....

As far as I remember, I didn't start a single thread. I simply joined the threads that were already open.

Isn't it funny how perception clouds reality and changes history.

[Obelisk]

You're also the one who started 3 (maybe?) threads about this topic.....

As far as I remember, I didn't start a single thread. I simply joined the threads that were already open.

[rcoreyus]

Confidence IS important. I just don't see why that is associated with penis size. Confidence comes from self respect, and that should be based on what you have done with your life, not the size of your member - which is of absolutely no credit to you.

Over time I've gone from being very shy and having trouble interacting with women to being quite confident and being quite comfortable talking with women. During that time my penis size hasn't changed.

Maybe the woman at the bar more willing to "talk" to the guy with the larger penis (given there is a way for her to know about his penis size beforehand).

Many guys sporting larger-than-average penises, are often times more confident (too confident?). So, a girl going for the confident guy, is essentially going for the guy with the larger penis.

I have a theory that this then leads to a vicious circle: The hung, confident guys get more sex (not necessarily in the form of long-term relationships), resulting in them becoming more confident (overconfident, even). Them not being able to hold down a relationship, is just chalked up to being the girl's fault (or something of the sort). On the other hand, the shy, not-so-hung guys get "overwhelmed" by girls having only been with hung jerks (as it were). This leads them to think that if the hung guys did not stand a chance, how are they going to make it (it could not have been that bad; the hung guys could not have been complete a-holes, right)? This results in them clamming up even more, drawing even less attention from women, and getting even less sex/relationships.

I am not saying this is always the case but it is very much real.

[rcoreyus]

No. If you look at the responses from women here, most would prefer average sized. This is backed up by the sale of average-sized sex toys. In a similar vein, many men would prefer average sized breasts - everything else being equal.

There is just nothing to support the idea that bigger feels better for most women. Sure, some women are size-queens, as are some gay men but that is not the majority.

I do understand that there are a lot of parts that make up the whole, and that it is this whole that one chooses. I was just saying that, presented with the possibility to design the perfect man, a woman would probably pick a larger than average penis. Mind you, I am not talking about elephant size, just the biggest size that would feel comfortable. The only time this would not be true, would be if the woman physically could not take a penis that was larger than some predetermined size. Otherwise, I cannot imagine there being too many men with 4 inches or less, in that scenario.

[somerandomguy]

Okay. Lets suppose a woman is sitting at a bar, having a nice quiet drink. Two men walk in, (twins - identical). One man holds his head up high, is clean shaven (perhaps just a bit of stubble - he just got off work) but still smells of his shower. He still makes eye contact with the woman, smiles, walks confidently over and says hello. The second twin walks in with shoulders slightly down, doesn't make eye contact with the woman, doesn't smile and shuffles over to her and says hello. By the way he hasn't shaved in say two days and hasn't had a shower for two days - but he's hung like a horse and his twin is just average. Who do you think will be able to take the woman out on a date? or take her home to bed for that matter on the first date?

Maybe the woman at the bar more willing to "talk" to the guy with the larger penis (given there is a way for her to know about his penis size beforehand).

Many guys sporting larger-than-average penises, are often times more confident (too confident?). So, a girl going for the confident guy, is essentially going for the guy with the larger penis.

I have a theory that this then leads to a vicious circle: The hung, confident guys get more sex (not necessarily in the form of long-term relationships), resulting in them becoming more confident (overconfident, even). Them not being able to hold down a relationship, is just chalked up to being the girl's fault (or something of the sort). On the other hand, the shy, not-so-hung guys get "overwhelmed" by girls having only been with hung jerks (as it were). This leads them to think that if the hung guys did not stand a chance, how are they going to make it (it could not have been that bad; the hung guys could not have been complete a-holes, right)? This results in them clamming up even more, drawing even less attention from women, and getting even less sex/relationships.

I am not saying this is always the case but it is very much real.

[somerandomguy]

I also prefer medium / small to large for breasts. I'm not settling, that is what I prefer - large breasts just look uncomfortable to me.

That said, breasts, hair, height, build etc all are part of a single picture and you can't just add up numbers. There are beautiful women with large breasts. There are beautiful women with small breasts. It is like looking at a painting - all the parts need to fit together for it to be beautiful. Asking whether large breasts are better is like asking if a painting is better if the artist uses more blue.

I do understand that there are a lot of parts that make up the whole, and that it is this whole that one chooses. I was just saying that, presented with the possibility to design the perfect man, a woman would probably pick a larger than average penis. Mind you, I am not talking about elephant size, just the biggest size that would feel comfortable. The only time this would not be true, would be if the woman physically could not take a penis that was larger than some predetermined size. Otherwise, I cannot imagine there being too many men with 4 inches or less, in that scenario.

[rcoreyus]

I also prefer medium / small to large for breasts. I'm not settling, that is what I prefer - large breasts just look uncomfortable to me.

That said, breasts, hair, height, build etc all are part of a single picture and you can't just add up numbers. There are beautiful women with large breasts. There are beautiful women with small breasts. It is like looking at a painting - all the parts need to fit together for it to be beautiful. Asking whether large breasts are better is like asking if a painting is better if the artist uses more blue.

and my husband would choose B cup. He hates large breasts. He'd probably actually choose even an A over a D or larger. He said as soon as I lose enough weight that they won't get big again he will pay for a breast reduction to get me back to B cup. I actually gained 2 sizes when I gained weight. I'm unhappy with D, he's unhappy with D. Although he finds it amusing when my breasts knock things off the counter and I start swearing at them or I have to lift them over the lip of an animal cage to catch one or clean it.

[kira]

In general though men are attracted to larger sized breasts as long as they are symmetrical with the rest of the body.

Actually if you put it to a poll like on the swingers site most men do not prefer large breasts. Most prefer average to smaller end like B or C cup. I've been watching low budget films on netflix and one of the things guys comment on in the reviews is if there are hot actors because they aren't really watching the movie for the acting or maybe not even for the plot. I was surprised to find A cup or not even noticeable breasted women listed as hot actresses because of other features.

Another poll on the swingers site is penis size preference. The overwhelming answer is Don't care followed by average.

[Stillness]

So then to penis size. I guess, again, we can use breasts as the female equivalent.

For someone that is trying to be a perfectionist on this and has adopted ladder theory, it's odd that you make this huge mistake. It's not even anatomically equivalent, let alone culturally or even stereotypically.

The stereotype is of the rich/famous/powerful old man going for the shapely young women. In that case the equivalent to the female body would be money, fame, and power. Culturally that holds. Things are changing as women become more wealthy and empowered in their own right, but it's not the penis that they're going for. It's abs or a handsome face or a certain body type, just keeping it to the physical. But they're also looking for a man who has the emotional make-up that they want. They don't have to put up with a brute anymore because he provides.

The female equivalent to the male genitals is the female genitals. They care about as much as we do. Not much. Of course, there are some people that have a fetish for really tight vaginas, really loose ones, long labia, or a preference for short neat ones. Their preferences aren't irrelevant because they're in the minority, but they are in the minority. Unless a woman has one of those men and lacks the corresponding feature OR her privates are causing a functional problem, she doesn't really need to worry even if her man may have a slight preference. It just does not matter enough. It's the same with penises.

And lizzard brought up such a good point about average and small breasts. You penis people are really ignoring the power of small and average. A lot of the women keep telling you and you keep ignoring it. You mentioned C and D cups as large breasts, but those are considered average nowadays. The really large ones do look great at times if they're presented well, but not always. What they do best is get attention. Once you get them out of the bra, they don't hold up as well. I can tell you for a fact that the most attractive ones I've had the pleasure with were average size. The largest ones were the most unattractive. I loved them all because I love breasts and women. I could have found a place in my life for any of them and been happy if the character would have lined up. It's the same with women. We're not all that different.