[Obelisk]

Obelisk,

Only humans and dolphins have sex for only pleasure except when procreating, and even then pleasure is attached.

I smiled.

We "have" it for pleasure but it takes a whole whack of technology to separate the pleasure from the "pregnancy" aspect. I have a vasectomy (science). A lot of women use the pill (science), and men use condoms (science).

Without the science, we are as helpless to stop procreating as any animal is.

[Guest]

It's not a deviation. The OP is afraid that God will send him to hell for masturbating because he's been told (by people like you) that it's a sin.

What do you know of sin? Dude I've been reading the Bible (in Greek to boot) for the past 10 years. I think it's safe to say I understand it better than anyone else that's not a scholar.

Seems as though you're good with your ego precluding facts. Again, Obelisk, I do not care what you believe.

And it's not me who opines masturbation is a sin. It's theologians that do. So you might want to confront your religious leader, not me. For I do not care what you believe to be true.

[Stillness]

This was taken from a Catholic Website:

I don't know if xbox360blue is Catholic or not. Your quote doesn't list either of the scriptures you posted here or any scripture that deals directly with masturbation. There aren't any. The concept doesn't appear in the Bible even in an offhand mention.

I actually agree with much of what your website says. I refrain from stating hard and fast rules where God's Word is silent, though. He's not using pornography and he's even including his wife by letting her see him. The clearly bad thing, scripturally, is that he's doing something that bothers his conscience. I don't know if it's the act itself or the things that go through his head while he's doing it, but that is forbidden. (1 Timothy 1:5, 19) It's what made me stop - that and the fact that I used pornography, which the Scriptures are a lot more explicit on.

Maybe he can tell us more about why he feels guilty if he's still around.

[Obelisk]

Seems as though you're good with your ego precluding facts. Again, Obelisk, I do not care what you believe.

And it's not me who opines masturbation is a sin. It's theologians that do. So you might want to confront your religious leader, not me. For I do not care what you believe to be true.

So what if theologians say something. Depending on what denomination most can't even come to a consensus whether Jesus had long hair or not. I stopped listening to "theologians" when I read the Bible on my own and realized they overcomplicate super simple stuff.

As for ego, yeah I admit my reply to you was a bit "ego preserving". Maybe 5 years ago I started seriously reading the Bible myself, and all the conclusions I've reached are not for showing off my "knowledge" but rather so I can have peace of mind that I understand God's word. That's all.

I refrain from stating hard and fast rules where God's Word is silent, though

I agree with this.

Maybe he can tell us more about why he feels guilty if he's still around.

We might have scared him off lol.

I mostly agree with everything you've said so far man.

[rcoreyus]

Lot's daughters is one, Jericho is another.

SansSouchi - most people tend to pick and choose. Leviticus seems to order the execution of witches for example, but there are people who are openly wican in many western societies.

I don't want to turn this into a religious debate. My position is that (right or wrong) it is very common for people and religious groups to interpret the bible in the way that they believe is reasonable. Many of them have come to the conclusion that the bible does not prohibit masturbation.

Obviously some people do interpret the bible to prohibit masturbation. Lacking a personal line to God, I have no opinion on which people are right. For myself, I have a LOT more serious offenses to worry about if I am every brought to judgement before god.

Like what kind of trouble? The principles are good as far as I know.

[Stillness]

Lot's daughters is one, Jericho is another.

I don't know exactly what you mean, but the Bible contains a lot of history. A lot of stuff went on in Jericho. Are you talking about Lot's daughters got him drunk and raped him? Just because it records something doesn't mean it's approved.

[rcoreyus]

That is part of the interpretation issue. If the bible says something happened but doesn't say that god objected, are we to assume it was OK? If it was done by people that god supported is it OK? Did god kill Onan for what he did, but not Lot's daughters for what they did? Did god support support the isralites conquering jericho, but not their raping the captives?

I make no claims of knowing and I think you will find religious people who will disagree.

I am probably the worst person you could find to ask about interpretations of the bible.

[Stillness]

Did god kill Onan for what he did, but not Lot's daughters for what they did? Did god support support the isralites conquering jericho, but not their raping the captives?

What raping are you talking about? The only people that came out of the attack of Jericho was Rahab the harlot and her household. She supported Israel, joined them, and has the honor of being named as an ancestor to Jesus Christ.

I'm trying to visualize rapes by Israelites and the only one I can think of is the raping of King David's daughter by her half-brother that caused the huge division in his house and led to war. I'm sure there is probably something I'm forgetting, but if there was any mass rape of captives it was definitely against the law.

The Mosaic Law addressed taking captive women specifically and required that they be given a month to mourn their family before being touched, be treated well, and taken as a wife with full rights. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14) Because of this and the fact that sex brought on a brief period of ceremonial uncleanness, it was the Israelite custom while being sanctified for military campaigns to abstain from sex. (See Leviticus 15:18; 1 Samuel 21:5 and 2 Samuel 11:11) So they shouldn't have gone raping as the nations surrounding them did and soldiers do to this very day.

The Bible doesn't say that God supported Lot and his daughters in what they did. There are multiple condemnations and laws in the Hebrew and the Christian Scriptures against incest and drunkenness. So, no disciple of Jesus or Moses would have any confusion about whether or not this behavior was acceptable. Obviously Lot's daughters didn't think he would consent to sex with him while sober. That doesn't excuse him, but one of the main themes of the Bible is that imperfect people that make mistakes can still please God. (2 Chronicles 19:2, 3; Romans 3:23, 24)

[Obelisk]

Man, did this thread turn around. lol

I know where rcoreyus is coming from. There are a lot of "interesting" passages in the OT. For example

The Mosaic Law addressed taking captive women specifically and required that they be given a month to mourn their family before being touched, be treated well, and taken as a wife with full rights.

I've sometimes pondered this. Basically it's a situation where a tribe was allowed to conquer another tribe, kill all the men, and then as consolation, allow the women to mourn their dead husbands and sons for 1 month before the conquerors were allowed to take these new women sexually.

By today's standards this would seem appalling to modern law and modern sensitivities. Keep in mind I'm not arguing against the Bible here. One interpretation (and one that makes sense to me based on a high level overview of God's involvement with humanity as described in the entire Bible) is that, throughout history, God has allowed atrocities to happen as a tool to teach humanity that we are all capable of great evil against our fellow man. Assuming eternal life after this life, even the people that suffered greatly only suffered a fraction of time compared to the eternal bliss they might receive in the final judgement.

Still many would not find that interpretation is good enough for them.

[xbox360blue]

Wow! Thank you

Leaving religion aside, I know of no one who doesn't masturbate. Recently I very briefly dated a Mexican girl (read: Catholic) who held a professional position that required a professional, hard science degree. While in her bedroom having sex, she proudly showed me her collection of vibrators & dildos. She told me that when she couldn't sleep she's masturbate to exhaustion and sleep like a baby. Since she's a doctor, she knows what to prescribe for herself. And she never prescribed meds for herself.

My ex girlfriend used to masturbate all the time. When I couldn't be with her she'd call me, tell me to dirty talk her while she masturbated. She's been masturbating since she was 14, I believe, maybe younger. But she was born with abnormally high testosterone & she's always horny.

Thank you Sir that was probably the best advice here. If there was a Golden Globe I'd give it to ya.

Can I ask, does that apply to pornagraphy too? I feel oh I'm living in Sin etc. but it's just another part of the body people in movies swap spit French kissing! What's the difference porn their just swapping cum that came out of the guy. LOL JUST as much sexual as kissing just a different area of the body. What you think?