[bubba29]

I'd like to know more about this mentality ....I've read about the possible biological explanations and whatnot, but I can't escape the notion that this is a relatively recent development in men as opposed to an evolutionary thing that would have manifested long long ago and changed very slowly. I guess my curiosity comes from not having really heard a satisfactory explanation yet. On top of that, it's directly contradictory to what the established position has been for generations - that infidelity on the part of a woman would be about the worst form of betrayal there could possibly be (an opinion that's still pretty strongly held in most places). And yet here we are with some men - and by no means a niche or small number - actively seeking it out.

I've heard the explanations that it's a turn-on to see women hyper-sexualized, and I don't reject them out of hand, but it still seems like it's just scratching the surface of it all and that the underlying truth runs much deeper. There's also my own beliefs about women asserting themselves and taking control of their sexuality in the modern era, but that would seem to explain the desire in women, not so much in men (unless it's the desire in women that creates the desire in men).

Lots of unanswered questions here. Ha-ha, a MFM is one thing I haven't done yet ....maybe I should find out for myself what all the hoopla is and just jump in. Likewise the cuckold stuff. I've actually considered that before (academically - I just can't really get into it emotionally/sexually and BF doesn't either in that way ....he wants me sexually satisfied at all costs but doesn't have a kink with seeing another guy have at me or learning about it), but to do it just feels flat. Even when I have sex with other women, it's not for any purpose other than that I like it.

i too have the desire to watch my wife being hyper sexual with a man she finds attractive. i cannot really explain this desire. i wonder if it has to do with the ease of watching porn. maybe subconsciously we want to see our wives the insatiable, sexy actress in a porn scene with a sexual stud. it could be the ultimate porn for us....just speculating. i have no jealousy in this regard. i separate love and sex. although ultimately, my wife and i have never participated in anything like this. just fantasized.

[jen1447]

Not directing this at you specifically bubba but the "it's exciting when she acts like a tramp" explanation seems really shallow, even if there's some truth to it. Is that really all it is?

I'd also be curious to know how much it might be about the other guy. Do you visualize him explicitly as well and get turned on by that? What percentage would you say is it about your wife vs. the other guy? This is all academic btw. I'm not about to accuse you of latent homosexuality, so please be honest.

[effy2014]

I don't think it's fair to question someone's love for their partner if they want to introduce a third party. It seems you are just insecure.

I certainly admit to a fair amount of insecurity. I have explained this in my posts to this issue. However, I would certainly question my SO's love for me if she said she no longer wanted to be sexually monogomous. Why wouldn't she question mine for insisting on bringing someone else into our bed?

I look at it more from my view that our sexual intimacy is an expression of our loving relationship. I hope and trust that our sex life is fulfilling because it is between us -- that we have a fulfilling emotional and loving connection as well.

My SO was far from a virgin when we got together. She has had other men -- it's not a novelty. She chose to be with me because I fulfill all aspects of our emotional and romantic life. That's why I reject the need for mfm or fmf on relationship grounds.

[effy2014]

Jen, that was incredibly well articulated. In this scenario, it's not the woman's fantasy to be taken by another man -- it is the man's fantasy. The motivation puzzles me as well. It does go against every cultural and sexual norm to which I am aware.

Does the man not believe that he can sufficiently satisfy his wife that he needs a stand in? Has sex become such a commodity of pleasure that he can objectively watch another man do the most intimate things with his wife without caring? I clearly miss the turn on.

As I recall from prior posts, Jen's BF does not see other women (or men for that matter) and she does not see other men. Does he have a fantasy of watching other men with you?

I'm with Romy on this one. It has no place in my loving relationship.

[jen1447]

BF has no fantasy about me with other men, no. But (not sure if this is pertinent to the topic) I could probably create that in him if I wanted to. He's very heavily committed to my satisfaction, so if I said I needed another man for that and put it in the context of more sexual games as opposed to some sort of RL criticism, he would probably say okay for my sake and invest in it personally. I wouldn't do that tho, either with actually wanting it or as a game.

I'm not certain about this but there does seem to be a tendency for the fantasizing guy to be personally 'inferior' in some way or other - skinny, out of shape, smaller penis, little stamina, etc., as opposed to the stand in who's more often superior in all those things. (BF wouldn't really qualify under those conditions as he's larger with good stamina and in good shape, etc.) So ....low self esteem manifesting as some sort of self-fulfilling self-loathing prophecy/fantasy? "I suck so I don't deserve a faithful woman, in fact I deserve to be cheated on openly and unapologetically" and so on? Inferiority complex? I'm reaching here and out of my depth but I wonder.

I should note that some women do go after this lifestyle themselves too. I know a couple. It's generally kind of a sexual liberation thing - I'm getting all the sex I can with as many sexually potent men as I can because I can, this is my world, etc. (Plus they love good sex and have high libidos.) That's distinct tho and still doesn't explain the trait in men.

[bubba29]

Not directing this at you specifically bubba but the "it's exciting when she acts like a tramp" explanation seems really shallow, even if there's some truth to it. Is that really all it is?

I'd also be curious to know how much it might be about the other guy. Do you visualize him explicitly as well and get turned on by that? What percentage would you say is it about your wife vs. the other guy? This is all academic btw. I'm not about to accuse you of latent homosexuality, so please be honest.

i am very confident in my sexual orientation. i have no desire to have sex with a man. i do appreciate a large penis though and i do like prostate stimulation. based on that, people would say i have gay tendencies....they can think what they want, i don't care. as for your thoughts on insecurities....you may be onto something. my penis is average in length and girth. i cannot penetrate her forever without losing control. i would say my body is among the top 2% for men my age and i have a decent face (sources of confidence).

i would like to see my wife have passionate sex with a man who has a large penis but ultimately she is very attracted to. i know this is against all norms and i cannot really explain this desire. is it "shallow" to want to see her be a "tramp"? only if she doesn't want to be a tramp and i push her into it. in the end, i know it is very weird but i really don't feel bad about my fantasy. i don't love my wife any less than the next person may love their wife because of this.

[effy2014]

I'm not certain about this but there does seem to be a tendency for the fantasizing guy to be personally 'inferior' in some way or other - skinny, out of shape, smaller penis, little stamina, etc., as opposed to the stand in who's more often superior in all those things. (BF wouldn't really qualify under those conditions as he's larger with good stamina and in good shape, etc.) So ....low self esteem manifesting as some sort of self-fulfilling self-loathing prophecy/fantasy? "I suck so I don't deserve a faithful woman, in fact I deserve to be cheated on openly and unapologetically" and so on? Inferiority complex? I'm reaching here and out of my depth but I wonder.

If its the woman who feels the need to add another man, that is an entirely different matter. I would call that an affair in a sexually monogamous relationship. I would then ask, what is the hole in our relationship that would make her want someone else?

But we are assuming its the man's fantasy. If its a "cuckhold" fetish, so be it. But then the "inferiority" is equal or greater with them needing the mfm than my aversion to it. If I wanted to feel that way, she could just play act as a femdom and humiliate me in any manner of ways. Like you, if its not to be humiliated, I don't understand the turn on.

Like Romy, I just don't see it as a part of a loving relationship. No matter how committed I am to my SO's satisfaction, the "inferior" me thinks I can achieve that with the equipment and imagination I was born with. That would be an absolute limit for me. There are so many ways to achieve satisfaction, adding another man just isn't one of them.

[effy2014]

i am very confident in my sexual orientation. i have no desire to have sex with a man. i do appreciate a large penis though and i do like prostate stimulation. based on that, people would say i have gay tendencies....they can think what they want, i don't care. as for your thoughts on insecurities....you may be onto something. my penis is average in length and girth. i cannot penetrate her forever without losing control. i would say my body is among the top 2% for men my age and i have a decent face (sources of confidence).

i would like to see my wife have passionate sex with a man who has a large penis but ultimately she is very attracted to. i know this is against all norms and i cannot really explain this desire. is it "shallow" to want to see her be a "tramp"? only if she doesn't want to be a tramp and i push her into it. in the end, i know it is very weird but i really don't feel bad about my fantasy. i don't love my wife any less than the next person may love their wife because of this.

Enjoying prostate stimulation does not make you a homosexual nor does having your wife use a strap on to accomplish it.

I am curious whether your wife is also interested in this fantasy and, if so, why haven't you engaged in it? My SO would throw up if I suggested it as a fantasy of mine.

[bubba29]

Enjoying prostate stimulation does not make you a homosexual nor does having your wife use a strap on to accomplish it.

I am curious whether your wife is also interested in this fantasy and, if so, why haven't you engaged in it? My SO would throw up if I suggested it as a fantasy of mine.

nope, my wife is not interested. she hasn't said never and something with myself, her, and another guy is much more likely. she knows my desires and hasn't told me never but she just isn't into the idea.

i would like her to peg me but she isn't into that either. she is slowly coming out of her sexual shell though.

[jen1447]

Watch out - if she comes all the way out you may be in for a pounding.

It's interesting how many women are shy about all kinds of sexual things but seem to embrace them once they let go of the insecurities. From anal play to pegging and everything in between ....closet freaks everywhere!