[rcoreyus]

I agree with stillness, sex is a very important part of love / marriage. Without it what you have is just friendship. Its clear though that for some people this just isn't true - maybe they have "pure" idea of romance that doesn't involve sex.

Pinklemonade does have one point about pressure. Unfortunately where there are very mismatched interests in sex, they problem keeps growing. The person who wants more sex finds its lack darkening their entire life - it is impossible not to feel rejected all the time. The other person feels constantly harassed and seen as only a sex object.

FWIW, If someone's partner is not willing to have sex with them, I believe they have every right to leave - or if they think leaving would cause their partner problems, then they have every right to cheat. A marriage vow is not supposed to be a vow of celibacy - it is not fair to deny someone a reasonable sex life.

[Justice]

. . .

FWIW, If someone's partner is not willing to have sex with them, I believe they have every right to leave - or if they think leaving would cause their partner problems, then they have every right to cheat. A marriage vow is not supposed to be a vow of celibacy - it is not fair to deny someone a reasonable sex life.

I always have respected your posts and opinions. Based on one of my previous posts, I wonder whether the women who gave me a hard time are going to give you one for this post.

[Claret]

Lets think on a different level here. How long have you been married? I don't think I've seen this here, and do you have children? Does your wife work outside the home? Are there money issues - even if just a small amount of debt? Is there anything you can think of that would lead you to determine that your wife resents you?

When you have exhausted all those possibilities and if you have then all I can say is that with-holding sex usually is about power. It may not necessarily be about power over you, it just may be that it is the one thing about herself that she can control.

[Stillness]

stillness

My moniker is proper case. Everyone can't be cutting edge like you and the other hip kids.

[rcoreyus]

I think sex withholding can be a sort of self-reinforcing trap. She doesn't want sex because she always feels pressured, it seems like the only thing he wants. He doesn't want any other sort of intimacy because it just reminds him of what he is missing.

I like food as an example. Imagine that he is starving. If they try to go out for a nice dinner, he just wolfs down the bread and anything else he can get his hands on - doesn't talk or pay any attention to her. Because of that she never wants to go out to eat. The problem is that with sex, if she doesn't eat, he can't either. He doesn't have the option of getting enough sex somewhere else that he is not desperate every time they are together. Also, unlike food, sexual appetites vary tremendously - he is starving while she is OK, or maybe just a big hungry.

[Pinklemonade]

Okay my words were harsh, and I'm sorry for that, I can get a little carried away. I don't want to hurt your feelings, JonDoe, but I honestly believe that if you just let it go, your wife would feel more at ease about herself. A part of her must feel extremely insecure and self-loathing because you are clearly so unhappy with her sexual performance, or lack there of. She must feel like she's not woman enough. If someone bugged me all the time about not giving them enough sex I would start to hate myself and never ever be aroused by that person even if I desperately wanted to be, because they would inspire in me all these feelings of inadequacy.
I agree with rcoreyus that at any point you have a right to leave a relationship. However, I don't agree that it is ever okay to cheat. If you want to have sex with another person, you should break up with whoever you are with first.

[Stillness]

After following JonDoe's posts, the feeling I get from his description of his wife is that she's too much at ease - with herself and with neglecting him.

I also don't think that cheating is ever OK. But denying affection is cheating. Two wrongs don't make a right, but when sexual affection has been withheld and someone cheats, it's not a shock.

[Justice]

. . .

I also don't think that cheating is ever OK.

Pinklemonade However, I don't agree that it is ever okay to cheat.

I am not a proponent. But while I don't know personally of people who made the agreement, I have read of people who tell their spouse that they will not accommodate their needs. And essentially tell them to get them met elsewhere just don't shove it in my face.
Curious to Stillness and Pinklemonade (et al), if your spouse refused to have sex with you (and I don't mean a difference of daily vs weekly) but didn't approve of you getting it elsewhere and did not want a divorce (and neither did you), what do you suggest? I mean beyond the pat answer of counseling - because for several of the posters here that has not helped. This seems to be the scenario.

It really bugs when you read that a spouse won't make an effort, and then tells their spouse that they shouldn't masturbate either. To go with rcoreyus's food analogy - I am not hungry so you may not eat?

Of course I am not talking about temporary or sickness caused abstinence or just specific fetishes, but the cases we read here like women who will masturbate but withhold all sex and intimacy from their husband.

[Stillness]

Curious to Stillness and Pinklemonade (et al), if your spouse refused to have sex with you (and I don't mean a difference of daily vs weekly) but didn't approve of you getting it elsewhere and did not want a divorce (and neither did you), what do you suggest?

Communication, counseling, prayer, self-control, long-suffering.

The grey matter between our ears makes it so we're not slaves to our desires. It's what separates us from the rest of the creatures on this planet.

[jen1447]

After following JonDoe's posts, the feeling I get from his description of his wife is that she's too much at ease - with herself and with neglecting him.

That and it basically being a lifetime of this, the way he's described it.

The cheating question I think is a misnomer in this case ....if you're spouse refused sex longterm and left you no choice but to do without or seek it elsewhere, you'd ideally inform them that you'd be seeking it elsewhere, hence it would not be a secret/sneaking around, hence not really cheating per se. If their response to this was to withhold their consent (tacit or otherwise), then it would be time to decide if it would mean the end of the marriage or not. This whole area isn't really in my wheelhouse though, so take it FWIW.