[Stillness]

What she presented was not a clear case of sexual assault. Like Justice, I wasn't even thinking "rape" when I read it. It sounded like pressured seduction that she reluctantly let go to a point, but no further.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Let's talk to the OP personally guys not as a third person.

On another note, I've just replied myself, the page before and remembering youth I too saw something simular Stillness to the way of your thinking.

[Justice]

CW - I think that you and others provided good advice for the OP - that she should trust HER intuition, stand up for herself and how she can protect herself going forward. I think EVERYONE here agrees that she was not treated properly and the guy is a creep.

The biggest takeaways IMO is how she can protect herself and how to prevent anything like this from happening to her again.

The rest is less clear and I think that guy is a beyond a jerk.

No, women should not be made to feel guilty for being a victim, but we must at least try to minimize our exposure when ever we can. Of course this applies to men as well.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Justice wrote:-

The biggest takeaways IMO is how she can protect herself and how to prevent anything like this from happening to her again.

mzhk - My thoughts sweet? Never meet someone in a place where no one is. Never enter a car with a person you don't know and haven't known well and trust. Always stick to places where people are around until you know in your heart of hearts the person is a "safe" person to be alone with and that, is called "time"...

[Motorguy]

Justice wrote:-



mzhk - My thoughts sweet? Never meet someone in a place where no one is. Never enter a car with a person you don't know and haven't known well and trust. Always stick to places where people are around until you know in your heart of hearts the person is a "safe" person to be alone with and that, is called "time"...

Very wise words to live by CW this could have been worse thank god it wasn't.

[jen1447]

What she presented was not a clear case of sexual assault.

sigh, there's so much repetition necessary here ....

This is the definition of rape set by the FBI in the US and punishable as a crime:

"Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim"

I tell him.." I cant I just c an't".
Starts up trying to get back down my pants again! puts his finger in me AGAIN!!

How can you possibly construe that as not meeting the definition of rape? We have explicitly stated non-consent - "I can't, I just can't." We have explicit penetration - "....puts his finger in me again." After the denial of consent. Your lack of understanding boggles the mind.

Explain to me how mzhk's saying "I can't, I just can't" can be construed anything but an explicit no, and explain how him putting his finger in her does not constitute digital penetration.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Let's talk to the OP personally guys not as a third person.

Thank you.

Feel free to start a new thread

[DreamP346]

mzhk - My thoughts sweet? Never meet someone in a place where no one is. Never enter a car with a person you don't know and haven't known well and trust. Always stick to places where people are around until you know in your heart of hearts the person is a "safe" person to be alone with and that, is called "time"...

Great advice. But in reality, how many of us have broken this rule. I'm sure almost all of us at some point did sometime really stupid. Have you ever been to a bar by yourself and had a drink or two? Did you ever start a conversation with somebody you just met and let out a few personal details? Did you ever turn away from you drink at a bar, even just for a second? Did you ever walk home by yourself and suddenly find that you are the only one on the block in the dark of night. Did you ever take the train/subway/bus and found yourself to be the only person on it? Did you ever take a cab home one night after a few drinks. All of these situations can easily lead to bad things happening, but in reality we do them all the time.

mzhk, I really hope you are not being made to feel guilty with advice about being safe. People mean well, but the reality is predictors behave like they do regardless of victim behavior. I know you didn't say anything about sexual assault, but what you describe IS sexual assault. Most victims often believe they are to blame, that maybe they did something wrong. You may be asking yourself, why did I agree to go out with him, why did I get in the car with him, why did I not scratch his face when he put his hands on me??? The fact is, he probably would have found a way to get to you. You say he hounded you until you gave in to seeing him. Notice how he manipulated the situation to get his way. He probably set up that whole night to get his way.

You sound confused. You sound unset. You sound like you have lost trust in men. These are classic feelings of sexual assault victims. It's not uncommon to not even think you have been assaulted. I am not an expert on sexual assaults but I have a lot of friends who work in this field. One of my friends is an expert in this area and constantly lectures on this topic. If you are interested, PM me and I can direct you to her.

[Baboy]

Well, the OP has not been back for awhile, and she might be alarmed at the way this thread has evolved.


When I read the initial post, it came across as a rather clear case of sexual assault, unless my assessment of what was being related was wholly erroneous. mzhk reported being driven to a remote location and jumped. She was explicit in saying she conveyed the clear message that she was not interested in sex, but found herself, inter alia, with the his fingers in her vagina no less. Perhaps I misunderstood where the fingers went, but the description did not seem all that vague. I fail to see not immediately jumping from the car as any kind of implied consent. Where was she to go? mzhk said there was no one around. Trying to take off might have antagonized this guy and resulted in who-knows-what kind of harm. The facts smack of unlawful confinement as well as sexual assault.

Some have suggested that mzhk did not say she felt as though she was the victim of a rape or a sexual assault, and that should govern. Without wishing to appear uncharitable, I believe her to be somewhat unworldly and unsophisticated. In part, she came here to ask how she should feel. Something of a victim mentality in operation. The guy who assaulted her tried to instill in her a feeling that it was all her fault and she should be sorry. She was confused. Unsure how to feel. Most here told her in no uncertain terms. Without that input, she could easily be left with the feeling that the situation cast her in more of a bad light than the real perpetrator.

I remain driven to the ineluctable conclusion that mzhk was the victim of a heinous sexual assault. My fond hope is that she at least seek counseling from a rape crisis center or similar source. Equally, I would hope this guy is not left to carry on like this as though he has done nothing. If I witness a murder, I would hope the murderer would be brought to justice, even though I am not the murderee. I would do my part to ensure that result.

[Baboy]

PS: I had intended my post to follow hard on the heels of Jen's lucid post at 3:57. Interesting time stamp. It's not lost on me that perhaps the OP would have fared better had she been packing a .357.

While I was composing, CW and sp346 got in there. By the time this gets posted, who knows what else will have snuck in?