[CHANDLERS WISH]

No I wouldn't say it's fear really. Not in my case. My only fear is to be compared physically to other men and being found lacking. It's not acceptable to me that my "personality" can make up for physical shortcomings, that's all. "Personality" is such a nebulous concept to me, I don't subscribe to that simplistic philosophy.

Have you ever heard of the ladder theory?

Yes, and I've copied this for others :-

Sally: We are just going to be friends, OK?
Harry: Great, friends. It's the best thing...You realize, of course, that we can never be friends.
Sally: Why not?
Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape, or form - is that men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You're saying I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: How do you know?
Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive.
Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail them, too.
Sally: What if they don't want to have sex with you?
Harry: Doesn't matter, because the sex thing is already out there, so the friendship is ultimately doomed, and that is the end of the story.

I have a lot of male friends, and I know for a fact that most want to bonk me is that the word? That's typical male, I acknowledge that, accept that even tell my Fiance that and he laughs. The difference is I know the word boundry and so do they and so, we continue to be friends knowing that. I've also had a male friend that does not and never did want to sleep with me. And, we have been friends for a long time. Guess what? He was 4 years younger than me, and that is the reason why he never wanted to sleep with me... Guess what? I met him when he was 41. He is now 50 and still single. Yet extremely good looking. But has issues with what he wants in a partner. Kinda like, you know, a list......................

Sound familiar?

[rcoreyus]

I found a reference to the "ladder theory". If you believe it represents reality, then I understand why you post the things you do. I'm sure there are women who think like that too - but they aren't people I would spend time with.

[Obelisk]

I'm surprised you guys looked that up. Wow.

The Ladder Theory perfectly syncs with what my own empirical evidence has found. I believe it perfectly represents reality at a lower primal level.

Chandler's Wish, you mention boundaries. That has nothing to do with the theory. If I see a really hot woman on the street, particularly if she's dressed provocatively, I want be with her physically. It's not something that my mind thinks about logically. It's not like I sit there and go "hmm, this girl looks very well proportioned, I think I will decide to become aroused because it is logical for me to". Nope! it just happens, in a split second. Boundaries stop me from copping a feel, or saying something lewd. I realize in my higher portion of my brain "hey, that's someone's girlfriend/wife/daughter". This higher brain thinking is separate from the lower primal brain instinct.

I believe the ladder theory exclusively deals with the lower primal brain, and we ALL are subject to it. The movie "When Harry met Sally" was a perfect example of this primal brain function. In the case of your male friends. If they find you attractive they want to bonk you it's as simple as that. But for most this is only happening in the lower part of the brain. They might be perfectly happy with their wives, and in fact, when they see you and get aroused, they might immediately think of their wives instead.

rcoreyus, I believe the difference between the women (and men) who don't agree with the ladder theory are the ones who reject it at a higher brain level. It is impossible to do so at the lower brain level. It's like asking you to stick you hand in hot water and not expecting your brain to immediately fire off a message "get your hand out of there!" you do this instinctively.

[Stillness]

I'm sure there are women who think like that too - but they aren't people I would spend time with.

You probably feel this way because you rate low on the ladder. If you rated higher you would agree. You likely think this is circular, but it only sounds circular because you're lying to yourself, rcoreyus.

[Obelisk]

You probably feel this way because you rate low on the ladder. If you rated higher you would agree. You likely think this is circular, but it only sounds circular because you're lying to yourself, rcoreyus.

Awesomeness!!

(And yes I know you're being sarcastic, but hey, I have my own fantasies )

[rcoreyus]

Ah, but I do rate very low on the ladder among women who have a ladder. One woman who talks as if she has a "ladder" is a facebook friend, originally from high school. She wouldn't have given me the time of day then. I really wish I could help her, as she drifts between sad relationships that always end badly, but there is nothing at all I can do.

I was never on a ladder nor was my wife but somehow we've been together for 30 years and are happy.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Is this where climbing the ladder (of a woman's stocking) came from?

Let me ask you something.

All of you

Could it actually be more so, that your sexual arousal is on the high side, as appose to the low side. That makes more scientific sense to me. Than, some primal ladder.

I imagine it's not funny getting an erection trying to hide it, having to cool down, only to bump into the next hot chick and have it happen all over again.

Here, I will just say I am glad that I am a woman

I still wonder on a lot of things. Age. I think when younger and that can still be up to 40, if not in a relationship, chemistry takes over every time. Which obviously is a sexual excitement.

[Stillness]

I was never on a ladder nor was my wife but somehow we've been together for 30 years and are happy.

Yes, it's no shock that someone focused on money, looks, measurements, or rating and comparing other human beings on some scale does not have meaningful, long-lasting relationships.

I know people like this in real life and steer clear of them to the extent I can. Unfortunately, some are relatives and old family friends whom I love. That's why I know it's near impossible trying to convince them of reality being something different than what they imagine. It's like they live in an entirely different, sad world separated by a chasm that you can't pull them over. They just can't seem to grasp that the problems they keep having are related to what they believe and what they do. I wouldn't call them useless, but typically, they are not the "go to" people for any kind of thoughtful endeavor.

[Obelisk]

Yes, it's no shock that someone focused on money, looks, measurements, or rating and comparing other human beings on some scale does not have meaningful, long-lasting relationships.

Yet my entire life I have been judged on my looks, and even now I'm judged on my looks by everyone. The only people that genuine don't care what I look like are my parents and my best friend. I can tell the difference in the way people treat me when I look buff compared to when I've been pudgy.

So I agree, the ideal is to find someone that can see beyond all that stuff. The reality is that everyone gets into a relationship for some reason or other. No one is completely altruistic in that.

[Stillness]

Everyone with eyes judges looks. Every single detail about you matters to some extent. Of course relationships involve some sort of exchange! The issue is regarding the relative importance a person places in physical things verses character. Everyone is selfish, but how selfish?

You're the one raising the argument that penis size has absolutely no importance and love conquers all, then trouncing those arguments. Most everyone that disagrees with you is speaking in terms of degrees, not absolutes.