[caterpillar79]

Ladies, do you prefer a man who takes the lead in the relationship or not? Tell me your reasons why you prefer such.

[WildChild]

I've never yet found a man who didn't change after a while, whether 6 months or a year, or most recently 4 months. They start out all lovey, kissy, affectionate and then once your affections are fairly involved - they back off. I'm no longer sure that I could ever again trust a man's apparent affection, it just hurts too much to go through it. You think, this one is different and then... no, he's not. It would be understandable if there was some big problem or something but it generally seems to relate to something that happened in a previous relationship.

What I want is a man who can actually Get Over their old stuff, Be Honest and not pretend to care when they really don't. If all they want is sex, they should just say so, because then you could just write them off after a couple times.

[Guest]

I've never yet found a man who didn't change after a while, whether 6 months or a year, or most recently 4 months. They start out all lovey, kissy, affectionate and then once your affections are fairly involved - they back off. I'm no longer sure that I could ever again trust a man's apparent affection, it just hurts too much to go through it. You think, this one is different and then... no, he's not. It would be understandable if there was some big problem or something but it generally seems to relate to something that happened in a previous relationship.

What I want is a man who can actually Get Over their old stuff, Be Honest and not pretend to care when they really don't. If all they want is sex, they should just say so, because then you could just write them off after a couple times.

I'm very sorry to hear this.

You are a maternal figure here, and to fully discredit men because of your
bad experiences or choices with that gender is doing a disservice to the woman who love you, follow you and listen to you.

There is so much time here spent slapping stereotypes onto men and women alike. As a result, we reduce this forum to a place to vent, express hate, distaste and frustration, and further remove it from a place promoting self improvement.

Despite the differences between men and women, the deciding factor comes down not a person's gender, but their character as a whole.

If we are poor at judging character, it isn't very productive to project our personal failings and inadequacies upon a gender as whole. It's selfish and removes hope for those in search. While it may not be the majority here, there are plenty of folks here in successful relationships.

I'm sure you will agree.

[WildChild]

No need to be sorry.

This one is about what I want. I'm human. I have wants and needs. Sometimes I make good choices, sometimes I make poor ones. As we've discussed before, many times, it's easier to see what someone else is doing or getting into, than it is to see ourselves. As a general thing I try to present a balanced approach. Occasionally I get frustrated. We all do, even Moms or maternal figures. This isn't a persona, it's me. I would not want to think that I cannot express my own range of feeling or frustrations. I certainly listen to plenty of other people’s, here and elsewhere. And as a rule I take the approach that we are dealing with individual people, not generalized genders.

When we meet people, especially ones we are attracted to or hope to attract to us- we almost all do it- we put our best foot forward, or what we think will be acceptable to that person. It's often not even conscious. As time passes and we get more comfortable and assured of the relationship, the guard is lowered, people relax and that is when you start to find out what you are really dealing with. I'm considered fairly attractive, reasonably intelligent, am a hard worker, very energetic, love sex and when I meet men they tend to put their best self forward. I am what I am. I am very giving, pretty tolerant and accepting of people as they are and that doesn't change, men seem to respond to me based on their past experience with women who may have started out that way and then changed. The biggie seems to be sex. Apparently quite a few women pretend to like it a lot more than they do and after the relationship is established, they pull back - I don't. This seems to create a problem - I don't fit the script. I get essentially punished for it. I'm not "sexy", it's not about image, I love sex, connection, a relationship with depth. I'm totally female, but I don't care if I break a nail. I don’t fit many of the preconceived expectations for women and this throws off efforts to put me into some category or box.

The expectations still exist for women to do most of the compromising and to often accept what is really unacceptable behavior. Yes, I’ve made some poor choices and I own those, those experiences have given me a broad range to draw from when looking at other’s situations. I’ve dealt with abuse in many forms. You and I have had some discussion before about how early abuse conditions a person to accept situations they shouldn’t. If I can save someone else some of the heartache and actual danger I’ve faced, then it turns to good purpose. I can choose to give a man who is struggling with his own issues time to deal with them (rather than dumping him) and perhaps reach a point where the two of us can create something special but that doesn’t mean I’m immune to occasional frustration or hurt.

I’m not a “good” woman. I'm not a therapist. I’m a complex and very real person. I’m not teaching Sunday school here, I don’t have to meet anyone else’s expectations of what a woman “should” be or how one “should” think.

[kygirl]

Ladies, do you prefer a man who takes the lead in the relationship or not? Tell me your reasons why you prefer such.

I like a man who is content to both lead and follow. I probably prefer a man who is a bit more of a leader because I have a strong personality, and I like to feel like I have someone who can "keep up with me" so to speak...I think I find someone who is strong and assertive sexy. If someone has no backbone (extreme following), it really gets kind of annoying to me rather quickly.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I've never yet found a man who didn't change after a while, whether 6 months or a year, or most recently 4 months. They start out all lovey, kissy, affectionate and then once your affections are fairly involved - they back off. I'm no longer sure that I could ever again trust a man's apparent affection, it just hurts too much to go through it. You think, this one is different and then... no, he's not. It would be understandable if there was some big problem or something but it generally seems to relate to something that happened in a previous relationship.

What I want is a man who can actually Get Over their old stuff, Be Honest and not pretend to care when they really don't. If all they want is sex, they should just say so, because then you could just write them off after a couple times.

Wildchild,

Your personal experience can also be put down to age

A person in their late 40's and early 50's have generally been married, for a long period of time, generally lost a fair bit, or would do so, especially financially, if they were to lose their partner through a Divorce and so carry baggage of years they lost, and money they lost.

The other people I believe that have a hard time, is "first loves", because they have difficulty getting over their first romance.

The difference, is the youth lose a "person", they have been with usually up to 5 years, maybe as little as 1 month, but it's a person and so they are able to move on, as everyone says, you'll find someone better.

An older person generally loses, up to 20 years or more, from being married, certainly sometimes 10, but a marriage is different, it's a commitment of forever and they also lose often $$$, from the break up, which hurts the belt and a belief that this was to be forever.

So, it stands to reason that they hold baggage, anger but want comfort as they also haven't experienced for years, being alone having had someone there for the past 20 years, so they do believe they can and want a relationship.

I think if they haven't been out of their marriage for a long time, then they really are seeking "comfort", they aren't used to being alone. And, they do off course fear being financially burnt. They do want a relationship but fear steps in the way, not a fear of losing someone, more of years and money because they have experienced it, the younger generation haven't, only as I said a few years, and a person.....

There's a big difference - where age is concerned - verses baggage....

Over what that baggage is....

I often wonder if there is someone out there for myself, who doesn't have distaste for the idea of "long term", togetherness, let's face it divorce is 50%, both parties have to work, I wonder if the younger generation are going to make it as our parents and grandparents did, because we are not setting a good trend, this generation....

But, I am sure there is a man who doesn't have distaste and has totally let go of his past 45+ years, somewhere, you have to believe to succeed.

[Haven]

There is so much time here spent slapping stereotypes onto men and women alike. . .the deciding factor comes down not a person's gender, but their character as a whole.

The idea that individuals trump stereotypes isn't something any of us would argue with. That idea is what makes generalizing possible, so it's not necessary to remind us of it. If "apples are red" applied to every individual apple in existence, that wouldn't be a generalization - it'd be a fact.

Stereotypes exist because many (not all) of the individuals in the stereotyped group have been observed to share those stereotypical qualities. It's a useful concept. If we had to talk about "men" or "women" or "businesses" on an individual basis, we couldn't really say much, because each one is so different. When we get into stereotypes, though, that's when things start to get interesting. When WildChild says,

I've never yet found a man who didn't change after a while, whether 6 months or a year, or most recently 4 months. They start out all lovey, kissy, affectionate and then once your affections are fairly involved - they back off.

that's an observation she's made based on all the individual men that have been in her life. We can discuss that observation using generalizations. Do other women have similar experiences with the men they've met? Is there a pattern? If there is a pattern, can it be influenced, changed for the better?

These are interesting questions, and if we're not recognizing the possibility that her personal experience can also be part of a grouping of personal experiences, we'll soon find it difficult to see the forest for the trees.

[Futureboy]

I'd like a man that is:

1. Financially stable
2. Has no baggage
3. Has no drama
4. Likes to have fun
5. Is spontaneous
6. Has goals in life
7. Has a heart
8. Is independent
9. Isn't a momm's boy.
10. Is social and enjoys hanging out with friends or alone.

I'm here, you forgot lives in the U.S.

[Texinator]

I don’t fit many of the preconceived expectations for women and this throws off efforts to put me into some category or box.

So they're more interested in a shy 'damsel in distress'?

[Futureboy]

As a general thing, if men put half as much energy into understanding women as women do into trying to figure out men, we'd be in better shape. Do you see any men lining up to buy books written by women that tell them what they want in a woman and how they should act?

Men do try to work women out but unfortunately social conditioning is such that they cannot talk to any men about it and buying a book is alien. I notice there are quite a few guys on here trying to figure woman out. If we try to much we are not considerred manly and move frim 'Dingoman' to gay-guy