[Stillness]

Do your faith and personal beliefs offer any guidance? What do they have to say about marriage? Were there any vows? I don't know a lot about Buddhism and if it says much about any of this.

I do know that rules and principles are always easy to deal with until we have a difficult decision that may challenge them. But that's when it's most important to follow through on them. The heart is overrated. It can be treacherous. But if the principles by which one lives are good, they lead to a wise course and long-term benefit.

It's hard for me to say what you should do because there's so much I don't understand and I think that ultimately you have to decide for yourself. What I'd be doing is leaning on the principles in my Scriptures, praying, and thinking about what would bring the most long-term benefit to everyone involved.

[chaya]

Okay, are you up for some Q and A? Kind of like a chaya interview to hopefully help you process and prioritize.

I'll answer any questions that might help.

I called my sister, after she promised not to tell my parent, I told her the whole story. She is not very optimistic about my present situation working long term. On the up side, she is considering coming here for a visit, her school is out and she has the summer free.

[jen1447]

Okay good. First question, what are the five most important things in life to you? They can be anything - people, ideas, even memories and stuff like that. Try to list the things that pop to mind right off the bat, and try not to fall into the 'version of me I'd like people to see' trap. (We'd all like to end world hunger but not many people have that on their personal priority list, for example.)

[chaya]

Do your faith and personal beliefs offer any guidance? What do they have to say about marriage? Were there any vows? I don't know a lot about Buddhism and if it says much about any of this.

I do know that rules and principles are always easy to deal with until we have a difficult decision that may challenge them. But that's when it's most important to follow through on them. The heart is overrated. It can be treacherous. But if the principles by which one lives are good, they lead to a wise course and long-term benefit.

It's hard for me to say what you should do because there's so much I don't understand and I think that ultimately you have to decide for yourself. What I'd be doing is leaning on the principles in my Scriptures, praying, and thinking about what would bring the most long-term benefit to everyone involved.

Buddhists considers marriage a secular affair and as such, it is not considered a sacrament. Buddhists are expected to follow the civil laws regarding marriage laid out by their respective governments.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

What if, you don't fear with Kiyomi but you fear with your husband, the fulfilment of intimacy.

What if also you feel you can talk to Kiyomi but not to your husband.

What if you have a "best friend in Kiyomi" who is guiding you both onto the journey you took and is the reason why she entered your lives.

There will and are a lot of what ifs at present, take your time, be kind to yourself, don't push for answers but find them .

[chaya]

Okay good. First question, what are the five most important things in life to you? They can be anything - people, ideas, even memories and stuff like that. Try to list the things that pop to mind right off the bat, and try not to fall into the 'version of me I'd like people to see' trap. (We'd all like to end world hunger but not many people have that on their personal priority list, for example.)

1. Misako, my daughter
2. My husband
3. Kiyomi
4. Karma
5. Family

[jen1447]

Well that was easier than I thought.

Assuming you went 1-5 in order or priority, you kind of have your priorities laid out for you. I'm not gonna try to talk you out of 2 and 3, but I do have to ask - is the guy who has left you unfulfilled for quite some time now really more important in your life than the woman who seems to have fulfilled you in recent times, and if so, why? I have a feeling this is your "my job in life is to suffer" mentality coming out, but that's not really for me to say.

Anyway, on polyamory - it's not going to work if one of your partners views the the other one as a plaything or a distraction or a sexual fantasy minus the love. The whole thing is pretty much DOA if that's the approach you're taking, so I wouldn't do that to Kiyomi if you really care for her. She'll just get screwed over in the long run that way. It's a tough thing to do but I think if your priorities really are what you say, you have little choice but to cut her loose. Like with any failed love, it's actually better to do that then string them along, because that mainly just benefits the person who's having trouble summoning the courage to do what they have to do and leaves the odd one out with false hope. Not good. I guess the only other solution would be to tell your hubs in no uncertain terms that you want a dual relationship with Kiyomi, with her as your 'secondary' and him as your 'primary.' (Yes, those are real terms.) I think you really have to ask yourself if you're cut out for that tho. I don't think it's for the faint of heart.

(btw, I seem to recall reading what sounded like an inaccurate description of polyamory either here or in that other thread - that it's a romantic relationship between three people. It's not, from what I understand, tho I suppose that configuration's possible too but I wouldn't know what to call it. What it more accurately is is a romantic relationship between one person and two other people, individually. In your case, Kiyomi would have no romantic relationship with your hubs ....at least I don't think you've ever hinted at that.)

As for Kiyomi, the reality is that in the unfortunate circumstance you've got going here and with your mind where it is, she really isn't your responsibility. If you look at it from the flip-side, how could she possibly be, or more accurately, what could you possibly do to 'take care' of her? Keeping her close just shows her on a daily basis what she can't have. There are winners and losers at the whole love game, and it basically sounds like she ended up a loser. Not your job to find a home for all the lost souls out there, no matter how sad it is. It's really crappy that she apparently has no one to go home to in Japan, but people always find a way of landing on their feet anyway. She's probably stronger than you think.

fwiw, I never just kick exes to the curb and say "see ya." It would be best if you comforted her and were there for her as much as she needs, but it has to be done with the new reality boundaries constantly in mind. That means no sex and no romantic affection. You can be her 'sister' but you can't be her lover. What you basically want to do is help give her the strength to walk away on her own two feet. (That's what I'd do anyway, not saying you'd have to.)

p.s - by Karma do you mean the 'what comes around goes around' doctrine or is that some person I don't know?

[Patti-here]

I think "karma' means what's predestined in our lives ? I think Kismer is another name for it,

[effy2014]

Jen:

I'm pretty sure that she means the Buddhist belief that our actions in this life and in prior lives determines what happens in the present life. It's the derivation of "what goes around comes around" but it's our own actions that "come around". It is another reason that Chaya takes responsibility for most everything in her life . . . whether or not she is actually responsible.

[Baboy]

Chaya, I was on here late last night, but not repeating that tonight. I see you are still signed on. We are in the same time zone. It's 8:30 p.m. for us. Not real late yet. But please do not stay up all night and fall asleep again at your keyboard, giving yourself another pain in the neck. You'll not think any more clearly if you do. CW suggested "be kind to yourself". Good advice. Have a good night's rest.