[StillLearnin]

Still, did you make your wife feel guilty for her previous experience, inform her that going down on her was out of the question? Your experience and this have a different basis.

True. I guess my main point is communication now rather than later, and acts of love (housework, etc.) might not help the situation alone.

[PJhavinfunagain]

Stillearnin,

I am sorry this is your experience. I would not give this advice to everyone. I was only giving suggestions as to how the OP could do some things differently.

I personally am grateful for all my Dh does. When he does some extras for me when I am not feeling well or super stressed it means so much. It makes up for the times when I am stretched thin and have asked him and the kids to help me catch up but nothing gets done. Stresses me out more and certainly does not put me in a romantic mood.

Also as someone who has never gotten one card, love note, flower (he has bought me plants) or much along the lines of romance, any little thing given as a "just because I love you" can be HUGE. The OP need to learn hot to touch his wife's heart not just her body.

[PJhavinfunagain]

True. I guess my main point is communication now rather than later, and acts of love (housework, etc.) might not help the situation alone.

I also gave other examples other than housework. I guess I touched a nerve with you. I was in no way suggesting he take on all household duties and clean the house from top to bottom! Helping around the house was 1 of 3-4 examples.

[StillLearnin]

I also gave other examples other than housework. I guess I touched a nerve with you.

No, no nerve. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. And you did suggest more.

But as a man that has done all that, and it took me threatening to leave for changes to occur, I do get tired of hearing/reading those same suggestions that never worked for me. I could have filled her "love buckets" that way the rest of my life, to my grave, and no changes would have ever happened. You would think that with the occasional sexual frustration I showed and all the rejections that she would have got the hint sooner or later (I'm obviously asking her to make love because I WANT to make love to her more regularly, not just to bug her). But she didn't, and it took drastic measures for me to force some changes from her.

[caterpillar79]

Stillearnin,
Also as someone who has never gotten one card, love note, flower (he has bought me plants) or much along the lines of romance, any little thing given as a "just because I love you" can be HUGE. The OP need to learn how to touch his wife's heart not just her body.

101% true. Call it cheesy, but nothing is cheesy if it is aimed at saving a marriage/relationship, and is meant by the doer because he wants to do it out of love not out of duty.

Receiving flowers and a little love note with a loving hug and a passionate kiss when you least expect it... oh, so sweet.

Men in general need to learn how to touch their wife's heart not just her body.

[caterpillar79]

But as a man that has done all that, and it took me threatening to leave for changes to occur, I do get tired of hearing/reading those same suggestions that never worked for me. I could have filled her "love buckets" that way the rest of my life, to my grave, and no changes would have ever happened. You would think that with the occasional sexual frustration I showed and all the rejections that she would have got the hint sooner or later (I'm obviously asking her to make love because I WANT to make love to her more regularly, not just to bug her). But she didn't, and it took drastic measures for me to force some changes from her.

Sorry about that, Still. There really is no such thing as one size fits all in relationships, especially marriage. I am curious as to what exactly did you do to 'wake her up' that worked and how she responded, and how is it like right now (maybe I missed some threads/posts about it).

[StillLearnin]

Well, long story. I'll try to keep it short.

After dating 5.5 years with 5 years without sex, we finally started having it about 6 months before the wedding. Then after marriage, first couple years were bliss, sex about once a week, but vanilla. Then first child came, sex tapered off, she was tired, every other week or so after she got over the birth. Still vanilla. Continued that way through two more children. Throughout this time I always did what she and the family needed, even working all the time, I did more than my share of housework, never complained about it (well, occasionally I complained about washing so many d**n dishes, I have to admit) because I did it for the family because it needed to be done. I would ask for some love making time with her several times a week, and just flat out be told "no" 90% of the time. I'm highly sexual, have a strong drive, and suppressing my natural sex needs was killing me.

So, after 18 years of suppression/oppression, I finally told her that some changes need to be made in the bedroom because I'm going crazy. She resisted, tried, resisted, tried, for a year and a half. Not much progress in that time. And I gave her plenty of time.

Then I finally told her this isn't working for me (a year and a half later after forcing her to see my needs and address them), and that I have one foot out the door, because I'm not happy. That was last March. It was then when she finally saw the seriousness of the situation. Then, in October, she had this growth in her uterus that had to be removed (non-cancerous, thank God), and I decided it was time for an attitude change in myself, because up until then I was still "I'll believe it when I see it so I don't know how committed to this marriage I really am" type of attitude. I decided I needed to change and be there for her 100% mentally and emotionally through the surgery. Since the surgery things have improved sooooo much more. It's like we have a different marriage now.

Of course its just my side of the story. But I know if you were to ask her she'd say that she was perfectly happy the whole time, and her needs were being met 100%. Her reason I later found out, was that she was happy, so she thought we both were happy. And, the limited boring sex we had was satisfying to her, so she didn't want to need to do anything else. Totally one sided.

It's been tough, but I knew from the beginning that she's the one for me. We have built a family and home with three children, and we still love each other. So I'm expecting another good 25 years ahead for us now.

[WantingToBeWanted]

I have to chime in here, based on my experience. I did exactly as you and others always suggest, for years and years. I did those things because I wanted to, for her and the family, and didn't hold them over her head to have sex. When she told me no (which was all the time) I just kept my mouth shut and grew more and more frustrated with my marriage.

I think in theory this should work, but reality (at least my reality) was that I was allowing her to control me and oppress my sexual needs. She knew I did all that stuff and didn't expect anything in return, so she never gave me anything in return. And she knew at times I would show sexual frustration, but she'd get mad at me and tell me to grow up. It was h*ll.

I think open, honest, communication, as well as all that other stuff, of course, is necessary. And the sooner the better so it doesn't build up resentment over years.

Sometimes when I think about it I feel like a real chump to allow the oppression for so long. I feel like she trained me to be exactly what she needed, and didn't care at all what my needs were. But the past is the past and I can't dwell on that. Things are a lot better now.

I wanted to let you know that reading about your frustrations was actually one of the reasons I joined this forum and posted today. Over the past week I read some of your posts about your past difficulties, and your work on them, and it inspired me.

Frustration is the exact word I would use to describe my feelings quite often. You also talked about not feeling desired or wanted, and it truly hurts a guy's self image to feel that rejection from his wife. I personally see sex as just below food, shelter, and love, in terms of a man's wants in life. Sex may not be the most important, but it sure does matter. I honestly think the lack of passion and desire from my wife partially brought me to my anxiety/depression state last year. It just left me vulnerable to losing my sense of identity as a sexually desired man and husband to my wife. As my name here states, I want to be wanted, loved, desired in every way by my wife.

I definitely made a big mistake early on, saying some of the judgmental things I said, but I have owned up to it, and apologized. It still changed nothing. I realized now I need to be truly active working on this with her, as it's not going to change with subtle suggestions. I brought this up last weekend, and ended up staying at my brother's house night because I was upset with her. She cried about it in the morning, and said she wanted to make things better, but she didn't say a word about this all week long. That was it.

[caterpillar79]

Well, long story. I'll try to keep it short.

After dating 5.5 years with 5 years without sex, we finally started having it about 6 months before the wedding. Then after marriage, first couple years were bliss, sex about once a week, but vanilla. Then first child came, sex tapered off, she was tired, every other week or so after she got over the birth. Still vanilla. Continued that way through two more children. Throughout this time I always did what she and the family needed, even working all the time, I did more than my share of housework, never complained about it (well, occasionally I complained about washing so many d**n dishes, I have to admit) because I did it for the family because it needed to be done. I would ask for some love making time with her several times a week, and just flat out be told "no" 90% of the time. I'm highly sexual, have a strong drive, and suppressing my natural sex needs was killing me.

So, after 18 years of suppression/oppression, I finally told her that some changes need to be made in the bedroom because I'm going crazy. She resisted, tried, resisted, tried, for a year and a half. Not much progress in that time. And I gave her plenty of time.

Then I finally told her this isn't working for me (a year and a half later after forcing her to see my needs and address them), and that I have one foot out the door, because I'm not happy. That was last March. It was then when she finally saw the seriousness of the situation. Then, in October, she had this growth in her uterus that had to be removed (non-cancerous, thank God), and I decided it was time for an attitude change in myself, because up until then I was still "I'll believe it when I see it so I don't know how committed to this marriage I really am" type of attitude. I decided I needed to change and be there for her 100% mentally and emotionally through the surgery. Since the surgery things have improved sooooo much more. It's like we have a different marriage now.

Of course its just my side of the story. But I know if you were to ask her she'd say that she was perfectly happy the whole time, and her needs were being met 100%. Her reason I later found out, was that she was happy, so she thought we both were happy. And, the limited boring sex we had was satisfying to her, so she didn't want to need to do anything else. Totally one sided.

It's been tough, but I knew from the beginning that she's the one for me. We have built a family and home with three children, and we still love each other. So I'm expecting another good 25 years ahead for us now.

That is wonderful news, Still. Thanks for sharing. My hat's off for your loving patience. I wish you both and your kids good health and a bountiful and happy life together.

What caused the growth in her uterus if I may ask? (You can VM/PM me to avoid hijacking this thread).

[StillLearnin]

It was a fibroid the size of a golf ball.
Ironically, the increased sex we were having helped discover it. She bled sometimes after sex, and refused to go to the doctor. It got bad enough, and after me hounding her about it, she finally went.