[Ashlee T.]

Bingo. And I don't feel the connection either. I can't even remember how long it's been since I've felt like I loved her.

Here's a big part of your problem. In one breath you're saying that its more than just sex thats important, it's the physical intimacy. But in another you're saying you don't even feel a connection with her. So what you're expecting from her is emotionally disconnected, "I just need satisfaction" sex. So I'll ask you, why is it that you WANT to have sex with someone you have no connection with? And why is it that you refuse to focus on your RELATIONSHIP and what might save it, and instead focus strictly on sex which won't save anything? Do you love this woman?

I do understand your frustrations...but the more and more I read, the more I agree that sex is WAY too high on your priority list in a relationship that has much deeper issues. And that's when I start to question your true feelings for this woman.....and if I'm questioning your feelings, I'm certain she's way ahead of me in doing the same.

[Ashlee T.]

Oh, and yeah, some women fake it. Most of us probably have at some point in our lives. Some women fake it just to please you and make you feel like you're doing good. Some women fake it so it will be over. But the key in most of those situations is LACK of emotional connection. As general a statement as it is to say women fake it, men often place more priority on sex in their relationship than actual love and emotional connection. Sounds sort of unfair when you make a blanket statement like that huh?

And ultimately, many of us women get to the point in our lives where IF we have faked it in the past, we're tired of having to fake it and will no longer do that just to appease our partner. So it's sort of like "ya know what? If you're not willing to give me what I need in this relationship.....I'm not going to make so much effort giving you what you need". She needs love, friendship, intimacy (that does not equal sex), connection, passion. If you, as her husband, stopped focusing on satisfying HER needs, then doesn't it seem a bit selfish to expect her to satisfy YOUR needs??

[MiniVanMan]

About faking it, I find faking it to please me appalling. It is so dishonest. If you don't want to have sex then don't have sex. It's better than lying to me, which is what faking ultimately is. It also teaches me that what I'm doing is what gets you off. Do you really want that?

[MiniVanMan]

First I want to thank all of you for your honesty and tough love. Sometimes I don't want to hear what you're telling me because it's so spot on. It's difficult to be told I'm in the wrong. I know I'm holding a grudge. I feel that if I give in, I'll be saying that all the hurt that's accumulated over the years is now gone. That it's okay, I'm over it. But I'm not.

I suppose I'm hung up on the notion (or fact, in my mind) that she stopped satisfying my needs first and in response I stopped satisfying hers. I know, it's juvenile. "She started it!" It's a problem with me, I admit it.

As I said before I DON'T want her to have sex with me just because I want it. I want her to want me. I want her passion I hope as much as she wants mine. But it seems to me that she'll never be sexually attracted to me. If she's emotionally connected, she'll have sex because only then can she tolerate it. That, to me, is a deal breaker. "not minding" sex or "being okay with it" is a turn off. I want to be the object of her desire, just like I was in the beginning. Why can't two people who love each other still lust for each other?

Telling me that sex is too high a priority, that what's important to me shouldn't be important, is unacceptable. I could turn the tables and say that putting such a hight priority on emotional intimacy is getting in the way of our relationship. She shouldn't make it such a high priority. In truth, we each have our own priorities and each is just as valid. And sex is NOT optional in marriage. Putting sex aside isn't going to solve anything. If it's going to work we need to compromise, and that means keeping both priorities on the table.

So I'll ask you, why is it that you WANT to have sex with someone you have no connection with?

But I DO feel a connection when we're being physical. It's so strong. I don't know why. That's just the way I am. The feeling isn't as strong when we're not physical.

Can you do it?
Can you let go of it?
You can if you decide that benefits will outweigh holding on to it.
Give it a try?

Agreed. That is the crux of it, isn't it? Can I let it go and give it a try? Right now, I can't answer that. I just can't. Therapy is supposed to help me figure that out.

[WildChild]

It starts with forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn't mean it was OK, doesn't mean that you forget it. It means you let go of it. Consider that if the emotional baggage you carry had a physical presence it would be like hauling around a couple of cinder blocks or some bags of rocks all the time. It wears you out, keeps you from doing and being all that you could, gets in your way, keeps you from having much fun, it just drags you down.

When you forgive, you let go of it. Just drop it and let it lay there or hand it back to person you think gave it to you. That's the real kicker, you haul it around with you, beat your self with it, reinflict the pain on yourself because the person who you need to forgive may not even be there anymore, they may not remember what it is that you've got and have been agonizing over. I've written about my experience with forgiving, I think you might find it in my blogs. Most people don't really understand what forgiving is about. It's about freeing yourself from a burden you have taken on. Forgiving yourself can also be very healing.

And No, forgiving won't solve everything. But just think how better you might feel and be able to deal things without that extra burden.

I don't anyone here expects you should give up sex, or really thinks that it is unimportant. It is very important. What we do know as women, and as well some our men here understand very well, if you want to bring back the intimacy with your wife, you may need to put off re-establishing sex for a while and focus on building an intimate connection in other ways. For a really turned on woman, everything can be part of foreplay. The book I suggested to you explains some ways of doing that for both of you. You two didn't get to this point overnight and you won't fix it over night.

There is nothing wrong or unusual in you finding a great feeling of connection through sex. Therapist and author John Gray, talks about this in his Mars and Venus books. He says that in general women need to feel loved in order to really feel desirable and want sex, while for most men sex brings out feelings of love. If both come to understand this and work with it everything is great but few seem to.

[MiniVanMan]

Thank you, WildChild. For some reason the last few months I've been more emotional than I've ever been in my life, and your post nearly brought me to tears. Thank you.

To address most of the other posts in this thread: This isn't ALL about sex. The original post concerned sex but that is not all I want from my wife. I want to be able to gaze into her eyes and feel the warmth in my heart. I want to look around a crowded room and know that she's the only woman I want to be with. When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss. I want to want to be with her.

None of that is happening right now.

[WildChild]

Believe me there are quite a few of us who have or are dealing with this too. It's frustrating and painful. When you once had "it" and things changed so that now you don't, I think it's more painful because you know what could be.

It seems we get so much baggage that we just can't see the possibliites any more. It sounds like your wife wants this too but doesn't see you as a man she can have it with? In the past, before this went south, how much foreplay was there? Were you doing the things you say you want now? Like coming up behind her and nuzzling her neck, giving her hugs and kisses just in passing?

Let me tell you what often happens is that a man will come home, his wife is happy to see him gives him a kiss and he just stands there. She tries to talk to him and his response is, "yeah, whatever". He parks himself in front of the TV or computer and shuts down, if she walks through his line of vision to the TV he gets grumpy, she suggests they go someplace together and there is always some reason not to or if he does go he makes it very apparent this isn't where he wants to be. Then having rejected her over and over (he may not realise it but that it how it feels to her) he starts getting attentive, why? He wants sex, she is feeling un; unheard, unseen, unsupported and uncared about. What she is not feeling is desired, loved or valued. Add to that, that the attentiveness is often 5 mins (if that) of very low level foreplay and then he wants to get down to business, she just isn't there. This spirals downward into creating a woman who loses interest and two hurt/angry people.

This isn't ALL about sex. The original post concerned sex but that is not all I want from my wife. I want to be able to gaze into her eyes and feel the warmth in my heart. I want to look around a crowded room and know that she's the only woman I want to be with. When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss. I want to want to be with her.

What you are describing above is what I think of as living foreplay, keeping it juicy. Little displays of affection, caring and desire throughout the day. Keeping the kettle on simmer all the time. The challenge is that if you (as a couple) haven't done this all along or fell out of doing it, your SO may be wary and suspicious of it starting up. It may take some time and consistancy to for them to get into it. That will happen faster, at least with a woman, if you start consistantly giving loving/playful attention without trying to move it into sex. I'm not saying this will always or absolutely work but it's the best possiblity. If a woman feels that the only time she gets any affection or positive caring from a man is when he wants sex she will start to feel used. The fact that the sex makes the man feel more connected will not cut any cake with her. Not then.

It takes time to rebuild the trust and feelings of underlying affection. I can feel your pain, I've been dealing with it from the other side. When you love someone and want to be with them not just some random person of complimentary sex, it's very painful. But the bottom line is You are the only person you can change. what they do is up to you. You can give them something different to respond to, break the pattern and know it may take time.

[sourpuss]

Thank you, WildChild. For some reason the last few months I've been more emotional than I've ever been in my life, and your post nearly brought me to tears. Thank you.

To address most of the other posts in this thread: This isn't ALL about sex. The original post concerned sex but that is not all I want from my wife. I want to be able to gaze into her eyes and feel the warmth in my heart. I want to look around a crowded room and know that she's the only woman I want to be with. When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss. I want to want to be with her.

None of that is happening right now.

You need to say exactly that, out loud, in front of her at your next counseling session.

[Ashlee T.]

I'm so SO glad to read what you've posted since I last posted. For the first time, I truly get the sense that you are fully recognizing in your HEART that somethings missing and it's not the lack of sex causing that. The lack of sex is just a side effect. There are probably many "side effects" in your relationship, each of which bother you. But it's like going to the doc after experiencing all those things, and finding out that you have an infection causing all those problems. I feel like that's where you are now, and you were NOT there in the beginning of your posts. For that, I congratulate you.

I'm always seeking to understand the opposite sex, and let me tell ya, it's as hard on this end as it is on yours. By nature we're just SO different, enough that sometimes its appauling that we're even supposed to be together.

You want WAY more than sex. There is nothing wrong with that. But remember, you must be a part of this. You cannot expect to sit back, have her change and everything transform around you. Almost everything you said you wanted above, were things you wanted HER to do.

When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss.

I WANT THESE THINGS TOO!! I think most of us truly want these things in a relationship. And we should have them, so long as we're meeting their needs in return. So what do you want from YOU in this relationship?

[cuff]

I think you're showing a great deal of commitment to her and the relationship by going to a counselor. A lot of men wouldn't even do that to save their marriage or relationship. It's difficult for a lot of men to give up that control. I hope all that doesn't go unnoticed by her and she understands that.

As I said before I DON'T want her to have sex with me just because I want it. I want her to want me. I want her passion I hope as much as she wants mine. But it seems to me that she'll never be sexually attracted to me. If she's emotionally connected, she'll have sex because only then can she tolerate it. That, to me, is a deal breaker. "not minding" sex or "being okay with it" is a turn off. I want to be the object of her desire, just like I was in the beginning. Why can't two people who love each other still lust for each other?

For your wife to want to have sex, she needs to have that emotional connection with you. If you give your wife that, she's not going to toss you a bone and give in and have pity sex with you just because you do that. Hopefully she'll be on the path to building that connection and want to have sex and it will be sincere.

Women are more complicated than men. I think the level of some of their feelings they have go deeper than most men. That's why it's so important for an all around connection with a man for sex. Not the initial passion and getting to know you stage, but the stage of spending your life with someone. Being together for 20 years, your wife needs to have an all around bond to keep her sex-drive for you going. For a man after 20 years, we can still look at her boobs or butt and want sex. I don't think it's that simple or black and white for most women after many years.