[A Dying Breed]

ADB: it seems that your message changed between post #4 and post #78. What brought you to shift your position? I'm not attacking either position.

From the Q and A from Sourpuss and some of what HD said. When I first read this, I didnt really know.

I still dont think his wife should have sent him to sex therapy.


But the more I read, the more he tries to blame his wife. A few times now, somebody has pointed out a problem and said "yeah, I do that, but-" and doesnt seem to even think about wanting to change it.

The first description seemed to blame it all on her. For him, the issue is sex. But for her it is not. But he wants her to give in and start having sex again. For her, it must not be as intimate. And he wants her to forget or change all these things, but he still hasn't talked about how they started to lose intimacy in the beginning. Now the main problems are that his wife doesn't want to have sex, and sent him to sex therapy (which I still disagree with).

I dunno, just from the tone and writing it doesn't seem like he wants to change. He wasnts her to change, but so far I havent seen him talk about making sacrifices or changing an aspect.

The wife values intimacy, but it seems he values sex above intimacy.


I guess it's just really hard to explain my opinion though, because I still felt I haven't.

I dont know, everything I have said could be wrong, I'm only going off of a few pages on the internet. But to me it seems that he is identifying his wife as the entire problem.

But in marriage, even if one person started the problem, they BOTH have to solve it. I don't think MiniVanMan gets that. But again, I could easily be wrong.

[MiniVanMan]

...but he still hasn't talked about how they started to lose intimacy in the beginning.

I will tell you how this whole thing got started, but I know I will come off as both bitter and naive. (bottom line for the impatient: she lost interest, and I did not)

Within a few months after the beginning of our relationship, my wife started to turn me down. Our sex life transitioned from several times a week to twice a month. I can't recall how long the transition took, but I do remember the feeling of rejection I had, over and over and over again. I remember at first she would just laugh playfully at my advances and turn away. Often she would suggest we delay it until later, and when we'd go to bed and I would snuggle up to her to get things going, she would turn away and fall asleep. She would sometimes ask me "You're horny all the time, aren't you?", and I'd tell her yes. Eventually she just started rejecting me outright. As a result, I became sullen and withdrawn.

According to three couples therapists, two personal therapists, two of my friends' wives, and my wife herself, this is a normal progression of a relationship. They used phrases such as "the novelty wore off" and "it was no longer new and exciting". Apparently this is something I should have seen coming, and I should have been alright with it. I got the feeling that all these people were fighting the urge to say "Duh! What did you expect?".

For me, sex can never be anything but new and exciting. I've never had bad sex. I've never been bored with sex. All the sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and feelings are thrilling each and every time. The connection I have with my partner is at it's peak when we're having sex. No matter how many times I explore her body, I want to explore it again. To this day I still feel this way.

That is how it was for me, and at the very earliest part of our relationship it seemed to be true for her too. She was delighted with sex everyday. She'd play with my penis, using funny voices and wiggling it to and fro. She'd walk up to me unannounced, slide her hand down my pants, and instantly send me to heaven. We made a home video of ourselves having sex (which I still break out now and then, it's a huge turn on). I could sit down next to her and do no more than touch her thigh and she'd be ready for penetration. It was bliss, and unfortunately I thought it would last.

These feelings never dissipated for me. It was thrilling and intimate with every encounter. Life couldn't get any better. But, as I was later told by so many men and women, sex gets old. The thrill goes away. The novelty wears off.

News to me.

So even though I was wanting it every day just like I had been in the beginning, and she was aware of my desire, she could only bring herself to make love every other week or so (and now for the last 13 years it's been about 10 times a year). I'm sure at first it was because the novelty had worn off, and later me being sullen and withdrawn didn't help. But I was clueless! At that point nobody told me to expect my sex life to plummet. My wife sure couldn't (or wouldn't) explain it. I was, and still am, heartbroken at the lack of sex, which for me was also lack of intimacy.

To bring it full circle back to the topic of this thread, the reason I'm so disturbed by my wife's frequent masturbation is that clearly the novelty of masturbation doesn't wear off for her. But sex with her husband? Eh. The excitement is long gone. And according to everyone I've talked to about it, this is how relationships normally play out. I shouldn't expect anything different.

[WildChild]

I don't buy the "normal progression of a relationship" stuff. That is an old hat excuse for people not being really into sex, not recognizing how important it is and not making an effort to keep it fresh.
Personally, provided you threw in a some romance, I would love a relationship with a man who has the attitude you describe, But maybe I'm an oddball.

[Hopeless Dork]

I don't buy the "normal progression of a relationship" stuff. That is an old hat excuse for people not being really into sex, not recognizing how important it is and not making an effort to keep it fresh.
Personally, provided you threw in a some romance, I would love a relationship with a man who has the attitude you describe, But maybe I'm an oddball.

I don't buy it either. Sex just gets more and more exciting with me and my boyfriend as time goes by. Progression means progress... the natural progression should mean things get better not worse.

But it all comes down to compatability. Not necessarily matching sex drives either, but as long as both parties in a couple are genuinly interested in making their partner happy...they will meet in the middle and compromise on each others needs.

To me, sex is an outlet to express the love I feel for my guy, its a means for which he can make me feel special and beautiful, its a fun activity where it can be as different and as exciting as our imaginations let it be, its physical pleasure that is equalled by nothing else... there is no more reason for couples to let the sex fade out as there are reasons for them stop eating, stop sleeping, etc... Its part of life. Not the only part... but one of the GOOD parts for sure

[stressed]

After a lot - a lot of talking, I finally got her to understand that I have a biological imperative to ejaculate 3-4 times per week and had even been told I should by my urologist (white lie). I convinced her that it was not a substitute for being with her, but with schedules and different sex drives; I was satisfied if we could have sex with each other once or twice per week and would not push to have sex just so I could get off.

My advice? Stop pushing the sex; don't even bring it up. Don't tell her you masturbate, don't try to make her feel guilty if she does. Just be there for her, make her feel good about herself, but be a little aloof and she will come to you with more sex than you can dream of.

I see your point, but lying to your wife and saying that a urologist suggested you to ejaculate 3-4 times a week, wanting to justify your alone-time, was not fair played. Would you like such a lie to be told to you by her? This only gives me the impression of "paint the world in beautiful colours to blind your SO about the real situation and not be bothered into improving the real world". But that's just my view.


But I do agree with your advice, the OP should not consider getting involved into sex discussions. There is still a long way to go and I am not yet convinced he really 'wants' to go this way, after claiming he hadn't loved his wife for years. No matter how angry a person is, he doesn't say such a thing unless he even slightly means it.

[sourpuss]

(bottom line for the impatient: she lost interest, and I did not)

You still just made a huge long post about how she lost interest in sex and you didn't, and that's the cause of the problem. (still, all about sex)

The two of you lost the emotional connection that she needs in a relationship. There's a big difference. Until you can recognize the root of the problem and stop fixating on the whole sex thing, no progress will be made in your relationship at all. It's not really fair to sit and expect your wife to change and put all this effort in (and hope of it getting better) if you're not willing to give up on the whole sex thing. It's not the problem, it's a symptom of and huge problem in your relationship. Your wife has communicated that to you and there are pages of posts in this thread of everyone repeating it and you choose to ignore it and fixate on sex.

[emptypea2001]

OK, here's my last take on this. Men and women are different. What is important to you may be of no, or little interest to her and vice versa. Proof?: Watching Oprah.

My advice, again is to stop making sex the central focal point in your life and trying to impose that on her; it obviously is not for her and you can't change that by begging for it all the time. Make your masturbation better by studying "Edging" - make it last for half an hour instead of half a minute. Get off your wife's back (or front) and let her come to you. I promise you will get much more sex (and better) sex from her than you are now.

[StillLearnin]

At least you have something to work with. She has a drive and a need for sex.
You two just need to figure out how to meet in the middle so that you are both satisfied, sexually, and emotionally.

[Hopeless Dork]

Make your masturbation better by studying "Edging" - make it last for half an hour instead of half a minute.

No offense but I think with all the problems the OPs relationship is having with masturbation... the last thing he needs to do is focusing on it and coming up with new ways to make the masturbation last longer (since the time he spent sexually pleasing himself was one of his wifes biggest concerns in the first place)

If she was already upset at the time he dedicated to masturbation do you really thinking trying to increase that time is the best idea to get this relationship back in good healthy condition? :S

[Hopeless Dork]

PS -- edging isn't something that can only be done with masturbation. Its a great couples activitity.