[jns]

Women will spoon their guy, massage their guy, kiss him all over his body, lick his body, tell him he is good looking, whisper sweet nothings in his ear about how nice his body is and so on.

Absolutely true.

[Hopeless Dork]

To me that like this dillusional sense of entitlement. OHHH you won't go to a nude beach with me? I deserve to go to one with a beautiful girl... so I will watch a porn and pretend I'm at a nude beach with a beautiful girl... rather than get in that bed and be with you, that'll show you! Pfft. Its almost childish. When we grow up we learn not entitled to everything. If a chick wants a diamond every month... she needs to marry a rich man. She can't marry a pizza delivery guy then make him feel bad every single day that he isn't buying diamonds each month... and turn her affections away from him , feeling justified because her unrealistic whims aren't met.

Same vein.. a man knows what a woman is like, or should know, when he settles down with her... if she's not a nude beach kinda chick and you want a nude beach kinda chick -- go get one, rather than look for excuses and justifications to reduce intimacy with her because you deserve harems and orgies and she isnt doing it.

Shaw, no one said a thing about masturbation bad, shame shame shame. The discussion here is about men who don't have sex with their partner as much as they fly solo and all the hurt it causes.

As for the women that don't pleasure their man for no reason, I call BS. I do it frequently, never wanting anything but what I always want...to feel special, loved and wanted.

[rcoreyus]

Its quite possible he hadn't. I didn't have that for 25 years.

Unshaw, seriously, you have never had a woman who pursued you in the relationship, who wanted sex every bit as much as you did? A woman who gave you oral because she wanted you to have excitement and fun? A woman who jumped on top to get you off? A woman who initiated kissing with a lot of tongue? I have had this.

[ItsASecret]

Its quite possible he hadn't. I didn't have that for 25 years.

I agree. It is very possible to not have a woman ravage her man, or not necessarily ravage but act in that manner at all. I do not ravage, not because I do not love him but because I am just not a 'ravage' type girl. I love him but I am not an outwardly expressive pinning a guy down at any moment type girl, I am just not that way and other women may be the same. That does not mean I do not love him, it just means that is not how I express myself and again other women may be the same. I show my love with the sensual things like kissing his body and massages but I am not the type to jump on him in the middle of the afternoon and ride while screaming to orgasm. Some women may do that but not all will. It is all in the personality of the individual. Some are more expressive and some are more quiet. Expressive women may pin her husband to the wall the second he comes in the door, it is far less likely that the quiet reserved girl will do that based solely on her personality. If her way of showing her love for you is by a cuddle and a smile during oral then so be it, a man should know the way his SO will act based on her personality. Expecting a woman to "ravage" per se because other women do it can be too much for that particular reserved woman, that "well you expect me to have a different personality huh?" will cross her mind and can be hard to accept. Some women change their personality but not all. It takes communication and understanding of how your partner is, male or female. Some men are not highly expressive even if their SO wants them to be, he may be the more sultry kiss her body type instead of pin her to the wall type. Some men may be very expressive to an also expressive woman. The variety is all over the place however alongside the less expressive is unfortunately the individuals who are not expressive at all in any way and as a result their SO can be stuck in a emotionless relationship.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I can feel the temper slightly rising, slightly, maybe that's because I am an Aussie, reading an Aussie writing ..... debate is good... Talking is great... Getting slightly upset, yeah , na.

Some of the things you are stating, I've heard as well. Lordy, I've read them here over the past 4 years but there is alot of truth about compatability. For a woman to say " ewe you want that, that turns you on, no way", what does that honestly suggest to you? Between those two people? Why in the heck did these two people join as one?

Men like visualisation absolutely correct. That's why every second man stares at our boobs when we are walking down the street no matter what we are wearing... Especially in Queensland with that weather and the beach goers. But, men also like to see their partner naked, dressed up, in a bikini, pj's as they are cute... Do you not think that women have visualisation? I have a very vivid mind.. I see him in the shower and it turns me on, I don't have to close my eyes and think of Brad Pitt. But yes I can't deny if single I may not have used my "mind". But, the point is. Men do not "need" porn to live, they do not need porn as a stimulant. You would agree with that, if the woman, their partner did like anal, did like doing it outside, etc, etc, but like I said then are they compatable, were they ever? Sexually... And, there you may say "well yes they were at the beginning now he gets nothing unless he gives something back, or money".. Then were they compatable in the beginning? Is that an equal partner?

You need to remember that men and women are wired differently women use their brains for stimulation a man use sight. Just because you think it is wrong doesn' mean it is. What do women do to make a man feel sensual no bloke i have talk to has had it done them it is all about the women? What are the boundries based upon the female partners POV most of the time. Where is this boundry written i though a relationship should be mutal thing and each person's point respected.

And that is why I go down to the en-suite when my other half is in the shower because I used my brain, instead of sight? I like ItsASecrets reply regarding what women do to make a man feel sensual, backed up by JNS who is a male. But, it goes beyond that too. Sensuality, Sexuality and plain Horny, don't for one minute think that we "don't" think horny or act on it or react to it. We do.. But, most women do not want purely and only Sex. It's a turn off.

A relationship entered into and whilst growing should be about alot of communication, discussions and ensuring you are on the same page for the most part. How many men say "I agree" but really they either aren't listening, or agree just to win, or stay there only later to establish (once the woman falls for him), that he never agreed at all. Or visa versa for that matter .

The way you two have written your comments, is what i expected, you have tried to make me feel bad because my POV.

Oh pftttttttttt.. Us two have answered how we believe, our Opinion. I don't feel bad about something that I have written, if I believe in it, so why do you?

How would you take it if i came up to you as your partner and said that i wanted a discussion for the both of us to go to a nudist beach/camp how would you approch it? Answer honestly

I've already had that discussion and more.. We drove past Maslins Beach after lunch the other day... We were discussing building a pole home in the area and then commented how we could then go down to the beach naked. A woman walked past my fiance barely dressed and he stated " I need to see that again when she walks back past" I laughed.. Outside sex is exciting, different, adventurous... You guys if you are having problems, then you are dating, marrying the wrong person. One who is not open minded, doesn't believe in the reality that all relationships take work, doesn't know the difference of sexual, sensual and horny and doesn't know how to make each other feel important, loved and anything goes within, boundries, anal and I are still out of the question...

[CHANDLERS WISH]

On another note where compatability has meaning.

I wonder. We all learn about sex, sexuality, sensuality.. Or hopefully we do.

If we previously had a partner that maybe was pure lust, and every time sex was had it was awesome, exciting, fun, adventurous etc.

Then one day, we meet someone, fall in love and stay with that partner but the sex is nothing like the above. Has that then conditioned a person? They can not forget those feelings and want them again, as they are now not getting them? Mis-matched in a relationships sexually, as they had experienced exactly what they wanted sexually but was mis-matched emotionally with the other person.. So again, and still, mis-matched. But, does it not make the person what ever it is you learn and love? So, my thoughts are, therefore if they enter a different relationship with much less of what they had, could that be the reason why they need more and therefore, turn to porn... Therefore, it's not at all about the woman they are with, they love her.. It's about what they had that they now don't and try to keep alive . Perhaps. A thought..

[ItsASecret]

Then one day, we meet someone, fall in love and stay with that partner but the sex is nothing like the above. Has that then conditioned a person?

Absolutely that happens. They have that one woman, maybe his first, act like a total sex machine always wanting it doing outrageous things etc. then together with an individual who will not touch a vibrator with a ten foot pole because "it is not arousing". That first girl is the only one he has ever been exposed to so he may honestly believe that it is how all women will act, because he honestly does not know any different. Then the new woman comes into his life and that man may be thinking "but but my ex did it how come she does it and this woman doesn't that is not fair I want what I had". If he is not accepting of this new woman's personality realizing that all women are different then he will continually be shot down with disappointment that not all women are the crazy sex obsessed ones that he once had. Many men realize the differences between women quickly, but many also still believe they are entitled to have the first woman's attitude on future relationships simply because liked it.

Same thing happens with porn. Men watch and watch and watch and think "jeez sex is awesome look at how girls react to this stuff I cannot wait to be in a relationship because she will do this for me because I am seeing it in porn, awesome!". Then he gets in that relationship with a woman he loves and suddenly this woman does not want to do any of those acts he saw in porn. Suddenly this woman is not what he wants because his idea of how sex should be is not actually happening. His conditioning will remain that "they do it so all women should". In comes the delusion that porn is real and that because the women in porn do act X and she "enjoys it" and his SO is a woman as well then obviously all women should react and want sex the way a porn actress does. It is that delusion of wanting what they see simply because they see it, and the conditioning of seeing this fantastic sex act in his eyes happening whenever he logs onto a porn site. Because it happens every single time without fail with a variety of girls on screen they may start to believe that this is truly the way women act and if a woman does not then she is boring and no good sexually. A lot of men can make the disconnect of the fantasy porn world and reality, but for those who do not make that dissociation they end up unhappy thinking they are not receiving what "they deserve".

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Very well written there mam...

So there is a physcological element in all of this, as well as a lesson to learn of ensuring when entering a relationship for keeps that, you know each persons beliefs, thoughts, passions so you know there is something to work with, instead of nothing to work with, perhaps.

[a_dub]

Wow, I turned my back for a few days, and boom, this thread is alive and well again! Lol.

Same thing happens with porn. Men watch and watch and watch and think "jeez sex is awesome look at how girls react to this stuff I cannot wait to be in a relationship because she will do this for me because I am seeing it in porn, awesome!". Then he gets in that relationship with a woman he loves and suddenly this woman does not want to do any of those acts he saw in porn. Suddenly this woman is not what he wants because his idea of how sex should be is not actually happening. His conditioning will remain that "they do it so all women should". In comes the delusion that porn is real and that because the women in porn do act X and she "enjoys it" and his SO is a woman as well then obviously all women should react and want sex the way a porn actress does. It is that delusion of wanting what they see simply because they see it, and the conditioning of seeing this fantastic sex act in his eyes happening whenever he logs onto a porn site. Because it happens every single time without fail with a variety of girls on screen they may start to believe that this is truly the way women act and if a woman does not then she is boring and no good sexually. A lot of men can make the disconnect of the fantasy porn world and reality, but for those who do not make that dissociation they end up unhappy thinking they are not receiving what "they deserve".

99% of my knowledge of sex comes from watching porn, and 1% from actually having sex with a real woman. However, I don't expect real sex to be like porn. However, I struggle to find girls who I find attractive who are either single or willing to go out with me. Hence my porn addiction.

But I'm certain that if I find that woman who I love, I'll be fine and won't misproject what I watch on screen into the bedroom with us.

[ItsASecret]

99% of my knowledge of sex comes from watching porn, and 1% from actually having sex with a real woman. However, I don't expect real sex to be like porn.

If a guy has not been with a woman or only a handful for a very brief time then naturally all he has to go by is the unrealistic porn portrayal of sex because that is all he has been exposed to. For some men all it takes is one relationship to realize that porn is an exaggeration and that it should remain as an exaggeration should he wish to watch it later on (unless the couple agree on doing certain porn acts). If however that man is in a relationship and still refuses to accept that things in porn are not necessarily going to happen with his SO then he will be in for a bumpy ride of disappointment. As long as a guy realizes that porn is nothing more than a fantasy world of unrealistic sex (again unless there is mutual agreement to do certain acts) then he should be able to understand that just because it appears on screen does not mean it is going to happen in real life. As long as he is eventually able to differentiate the two worlds he will be okay. The problem arises when a man does not want to accept that the two worlds are different, that sense of "well I saw it on my screen so it must be true", that sense of entitlement is the problem.