Same thing happens with porn. Men watch and watch and watch and think "jeez sex is awesome look at how girls react to this stuff I cannot wait to be in a relationship because she will do this for me because I am seeing it in porn, awesome!". Then he gets in that relationship with a woman he loves and suddenly this woman does not want to do any of those acts he saw in porn. Suddenly this woman is not what he wants because his idea of how sex should be is not actually happening. His conditioning will remain that "they do it so all women should". In comes the delusion that porn is real and that because the women in porn do act X and she "enjoys it" and his SO is a woman as well then obviously all women should react and want sex the way a porn actress does. It is that delusion of wanting what they see simply because they see it, and the conditioning of seeing this fantastic sex act in his eyes happening whenever he logs onto a porn site. Because it happens every single time without fail with a variety of girls on screen they may start to believe that this is truly the way women act and if a woman does not then she is boring and no good sexually. A lot of men can make the disconnect of the fantasy porn world and reality, but for those who do not make that dissociation they end up unhappy thinking they are not receiving what "they deserve".

ur right I think ed young was right porn destroys relationships and thats because of what u stated I really think this porn induced ed is real because it changes the mind of the man and causes him to want to do taboo things and for some men they feel like there not well endowed just because a dude in porn has a 10incher per say and they think thats what a woman wants

I can't imagine preferring masturbation to sex with a willing partner, and I think I'm in the majority. Consider - if most men preferred their own hands why would prostitution have been popular in most cultures for most of human history? Why would men pay to have sex with a woman when they could satisfy themselves.

I'm sure there are some men who prefer it, just as there are people with all sorts of fetishes, but I also think that is a small minority - which could still be millions).

me neither but I think a dude who buys porn is a trick and the porn is the prostitute

[Stillness]

Hey. John. Welcome.

This love wasn't like the Hollywood fantasy love - it was just an immense amount of caring of my own existence which I had never before felt.

I'm not an atheist, but actually agree a lot with your sentiment. I don't think marriage, sex, and children are necessary to lead a fulfilling life. Anybody who tries to push it on you (as people tend to do when you don't fit in the little box they'd like) probably doesn't know what they're talking about. All of the dysfunction and divorce surrounding us testifies to the fact that it's not an easy endeavor.

I will say that the fantastic love you mention has been written about, talked about, and sung about a lot longer than Hollywood in every culture on this planet. That's because it's real. It's probably one of the more intense feelings, but it's also inferior to other deeper kinds of love when it comes to relationships. Some cultures even have different words for it, like the greek "eros," from whence we get "erotic." In English we generally have one word which is where we get confusing statements like, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." The erotic love, when coupled with the other types love can be powerfully moving. But with just the latter a single person can find fulfillment.

That being said I do think masturbation, especially coupled with pornography as it commonly is nowadays, is harmful. As someone who did it quite a bit when I was single and at times during my marriage, I find it unsatisfying and counterproductive. I never felt entirely good after masturbation, even if I felt relieved temporarily. I could easily see too much of that leading to a selfish mentality and unhealthy views about other people. I think a person is better off cutting out sexuality altogether or just finding a good mate if they can.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

What happened afterwords was, as I see it, the best thing which ever has happened to me:
I finally was happy. I began to love myself (which, I guess I hadn't before). This love wasn't like the Hollywood fantasy love - it was just an immense amount of caring of my own existence which I had never before felt. A huge weight was lifted from my shoulders and everything important to me came into perspective. I was able to focus on what I wanted to more easily. Any goal I put in front of myself, I would accomplish. These thoughts and decisions were nothing short of a victory...a life-saving victory.

If you have finally learnt how to love yourself, be totally happy with the inner you, and outer you. You should glow like a neon light, and attract all like minded people to you... Therefore, love ...

Masterbating alone all the time, will create an issue after so long of doing so.

Why not quit. And let the inner self of you start glowing and find what you are really looking for.

Welcome to the Forum.

CW

[John322]

My arguement

I realize I'm very late for this thread, but I happened to stumble upon it with a google search

I'd like to give you my side of it:

I am a man, 31 years old, and a virgin. I have attempted to have relationships with numerous women around me. I had this picturesque vision of what a real man should be and how a real man should act. I was the kind of 'lover boy' guy - who used to fall in love with women...or so I thought. I realized I would end up falling in love with their 'act'...their 'outside appearance' as 'good' people. All of them turned out to be rotten to the core :/
Chivalry is only dead because guys like me were 'naturally selected' out of existence I suppose.
Every single time, in the end I would find out the women who I had fallen for was an entirely different person.
Now...it may come as strange that I state this, but whenever I would ask - women would say I look 'just like any other guy'. I have no real 'defections' on the outside - but I suppose I just don't have 'some' look that would make me 'unlike' any other guy to any woman.
Deception. That's all I ever experienced.
I'm an atheist - so I do believe this is my one and only life - but that doesn't mean I am without empathy. My sense of empathy was far too strong due to my distant past (won't go into that).

I soon grew tired of it, and when I was 21 years old I realized something:
1. Sex was never my goal - I wanted to love and be loved back. I found out this was impossible. There was deception in every woman around me. All love was, was some Hollywood fantasy I had grown accustomed to believing. It's just some 'theme' used to sell products (like movies), appeasing to the empathy we as humans have. I would fall so madly in 'love' that I would do just about anything for the woman I was in love with.
However - whether I was with the wrong age group or just the wrong group in general - the only thing the women around me seemed to care about was being ****ed by the most powerful (popular...wealthy...whatever) man around her, sort of in competition with other women.

2. I thought children were okay - I myself had recently been one. However, I came to the realization that I would never be 'proud' of my child if I would have one - no matter what they accomplished. Since I am a very empathetic person - this would only bring sorrow to both my child and myself. To me, only disappointment and greed could come out of binding myself to something like that. If I detach myself from everyone - I can treat everyone as an equal. If I can't treat everyone as an equal - I would see no purpose in my continued existence. I do not wish to be remembered, nor do I wish to 'pass down my DNA' - evolution isn't a game I want to take part in. To me it's a very very petty game. I can make the world a better place without involving myself in this game. I loved no one, but I cared about everyone.

3. I wanted to practice Celibacy (which may be odd for an atheist) & sexually abstinent for the rest of my life. However, I know full well that I have strong primitive urges to seek sexual intercourse with a woman - but (in terms of sex or relationships) I had judged them untrustworthy (only for these categories). **** I know that even men can be vindictive, backstabbing, and greedy. But I don't want to 'feel' any of those emotions. Masturbation is the only way I can treat my primal urges without changing anything about my body or violating my principles.

What happened afterwords was, as I see it, the best thing which ever has happened to me:
I finally was happy. I began to love myself (which, I guess I hadn't before). This love wasn't like the Hollywood fantasy love - it was just an immense amount of caring of my own existence which I had never before felt. A huge weight was lifted from my shoulders and everything important to me came into perspective. I was able to focus on what I wanted to more easily. Any goal I put in front of myself, I would accomplish. These thoughts and decisions were nothing short of a victory...a life-saving victory.

So to the author (I know this is like 2 years later, but hey maybe they'll see) and anyone reading - this is why I personally prefer masturbation over seeking any sort of relationship.

If I - with my strong empathy - was able to finally 'love' myself (no pun intended) over anybody else - why can a woman not do the same?

Some may say I don't know what I'm missing - well I see it all the time. Sex, for men, is a means to an end. It is pleasurable only to 'release'. Since I already decided I wanted no part in 'evolution' - I had no problem saying 'forget it' to sex.

I'd rather just not 'know' I suppose

~John

[a_dub]

Porn for sex education for a guy is only good for learning the female anatomy, beyond that... it's so pointless. Numerous partners doesn't prepare you for sex either as here is the key - EVERY WOMAN IS DIFFERENT. lol. Not shouting... just capping for importance. You may learn how to please shiela and try the same techniques with stephanie and yeild awful results. Porn can't teach you how to make sex pleasurable. Positions are not the key to pleasurable sex... its about learning the woman you are with, what she likes, how she wants to be touched, where, what she wants to hear, what areas are most sensitive for her... what gets HER off... and the sad hard truth is that is going to vary from woman to woman.

Thanks for the advice, ma'am! I'm definitely into doing that, and more. Never done it before, because I wasn't really in love. Thats a common thing amongst most men, we'll bang just about anyone if we really wanna get laid. Sad but true. Which is why I'm holding out now. If I can't be there all the way for someone, I'm not gonna fake interest. Thats dishonesty of a pretty high kind; I deserve better, and she most certainly does.

So... my point, never worry about learning proper sexiquette...you will have to re-learn it for every single woman you are with. And the problems a lot of young men are facing that take on porn addiction while single... is that some have a difficult time transitioning to being intimate with a person.. so its all good to enjoy yourself, but keep in mind that the vagina will feel different than the hand, the stimulationss both physical and visual will be situational.

I rarely use my hands to masturbate anyways. In fact I didn't even know thats how it was "supposed" to be done till one of my cousins gave me my first introduction to porn when we were both 14 and told me thats how he got off in the shower. I usually, and by that I mean 95-99% of the time hump a soft pillow in bed, I think its a lot better than tugging it. I did read something online once about guys who masturbate that way and how it affects their performance in real life sex by giving them PE. I don't know, but the few times I have had sex, I lasted about the same as I normally do when masturbating which is around about 5 minutes. Which I've read is the average intra-vaginal latency time.

The best thing I could advise is trying to occasionally masturbate without all the bells and whistles, no porn... just your own thoughts and with soft touches -- thats one way to recondition all the flashing lights glitter stimulation of pure porn for release and nothing else.

LOL, already on it. Another way I'm weird is that I NEVER beat it while watching porn. I'll watch it every other day, and usually I'll jerk it right afterwards, but I almost always beat off to women I know in real life, using just some of visual elements of the porn I watched earlier. My old roomates thought I was crazy for waiting till AFTER porn to beat it, but again thats just the way I am. Part of it, I think, is because I've been masturbating since I was like 4, way before the internet even existed (for regular people anyways). I didn't seriously start using porn till a few years ago when I was 24 or 25. Most guys, or a lot of them start jacking off when they start watching porn at some point in their teenage years. So thats the only way they can do it. 95% of the time I jerk it pretending to have sex with some girl I know. Only 5% of the time is it to strangers (hot lady at the mall, porn stars, other celebs). I also have no problems doing it without watching any porn first, which is the majority of times.

I didn't mean to write all that, but it just came out, and serves as interesting insight if nothing else I guess.

[Hopeless Dork]

99% of my knowledge of sex comes from watching porn, and 1% from actually having sex with a real woman. However, I don't expect real sex to be like porn. However, I struggle to find girls who I find attractive who are either single or willing to go out with me. Hence my porn addiction.

But I'm certain that if I find that woman who I love, I'll be fine and won't misproject what I watch on screen into the bedroom with us.

Porn for sex education for a guy is only good for learning the female anatomy, beyond that... it's so pointless. Numerous partners doesn't prepare you for sex either as here is the key - EVERY WOMAN IS DIFFERENT. lol. Not shouting... just capping for importance. You may learn how to please shiela and try the same techniques with stephanie and yeild awful results. Porn can't teach you how to make sex pleasurable. Positions are not the key to pleasurable sex... its about learning the woman you are with, what she likes, how she wants to be touched, where, what she wants to hear, what areas are most sensitive for her... what gets HER off... and the sad hard truth is that is going to vary from woman to woman.

So... my point, never worry about learning proper sexiquette...you will have to re-learn it for every single woman you are with. And the problems a lot of young men are facing that take on porn addiction while single... is that some have a difficult time transitioning to being intimate with a person.. so its all good to enjoy yourself, but keep in mind that the vagina will feel different than the hand, the stimulationss both physical and visual will be situational.

The best thing I could advise is trying to occasionally masturbate without all the bells and whistles, no porn... just your own thoughts and with soft touches -- thats one way to recondition all the flashing lights glitter stimulation of pure porn for release and nothing else.

[ItsASecret]

99% of my knowledge of sex comes from watching porn, and 1% from actually having sex with a real woman. However, I don't expect real sex to be like porn.

If a guy has not been with a woman or only a handful for a very brief time then naturally all he has to go by is the unrealistic porn portrayal of sex because that is all he has been exposed to. For some men all it takes is one relationship to realize that porn is an exaggeration and that it should remain as an exaggeration should he wish to watch it later on (unless the couple agree on doing certain porn acts). If however that man is in a relationship and still refuses to accept that things in porn are not necessarily going to happen with his SO then he will be in for a bumpy ride of disappointment. As long as a guy realizes that porn is nothing more than a fantasy world of unrealistic sex (again unless there is mutual agreement to do certain acts) then he should be able to understand that just because it appears on screen does not mean it is going to happen in real life. As long as he is eventually able to differentiate the two worlds he will be okay. The problem arises when a man does not want to accept that the two worlds are different, that sense of "well I saw it on my screen so it must be true", that sense of entitlement is the problem.

[a_dub]

Wow, I turned my back for a few days, and boom, this thread is alive and well again! Lol.

Same thing happens with porn. Men watch and watch and watch and think "jeez sex is awesome look at how girls react to this stuff I cannot wait to be in a relationship because she will do this for me because I am seeing it in porn, awesome!". Then he gets in that relationship with a woman he loves and suddenly this woman does not want to do any of those acts he saw in porn. Suddenly this woman is not what he wants because his idea of how sex should be is not actually happening. His conditioning will remain that "they do it so all women should". In comes the delusion that porn is real and that because the women in porn do act X and she "enjoys it" and his SO is a woman as well then obviously all women should react and want sex the way a porn actress does. It is that delusion of wanting what they see simply because they see it, and the conditioning of seeing this fantastic sex act in his eyes happening whenever he logs onto a porn site. Because it happens every single time without fail with a variety of girls on screen they may start to believe that this is truly the way women act and if a woman does not then she is boring and no good sexually. A lot of men can make the disconnect of the fantasy porn world and reality, but for those who do not make that dissociation they end up unhappy thinking they are not receiving what "they deserve".

99% of my knowledge of sex comes from watching porn, and 1% from actually having sex with a real woman. However, I don't expect real sex to be like porn. However, I struggle to find girls who I find attractive who are either single or willing to go out with me. Hence my porn addiction.

But I'm certain that if I find that woman who I love, I'll be fine and won't misproject what I watch on screen into the bedroom with us.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Very well written there mam...

So there is a physcological element in all of this, as well as a lesson to learn of ensuring when entering a relationship for keeps that, you know each persons beliefs, thoughts, passions so you know there is something to work with, instead of nothing to work with, perhaps.