[ItsASecret]

Then one day, we meet someone, fall in love and stay with that partner but the sex is nothing like the above. Has that then conditioned a person?

Absolutely that happens. They have that one woman, maybe his first, act like a total sex machine always wanting it doing outrageous things etc. then together with an individual who will not touch a vibrator with a ten foot pole because "it is not arousing". That first girl is the only one he has ever been exposed to so he may honestly believe that it is how all women will act, because he honestly does not know any different. Then the new woman comes into his life and that man may be thinking "but but my ex did it how come she does it and this woman doesn't that is not fair I want what I had". If he is not accepting of this new woman's personality realizing that all women are different then he will continually be shot down with disappointment that not all women are the crazy sex obsessed ones that he once had. Many men realize the differences between women quickly, but many also still believe they are entitled to have the first woman's attitude on future relationships simply because liked it.

Same thing happens with porn. Men watch and watch and watch and think "jeez sex is awesome look at how girls react to this stuff I cannot wait to be in a relationship because she will do this for me because I am seeing it in porn, awesome!". Then he gets in that relationship with a woman he loves and suddenly this woman does not want to do any of those acts he saw in porn. Suddenly this woman is not what he wants because his idea of how sex should be is not actually happening. His conditioning will remain that "they do it so all women should". In comes the delusion that porn is real and that because the women in porn do act X and she "enjoys it" and his SO is a woman as well then obviously all women should react and want sex the way a porn actress does. It is that delusion of wanting what they see simply because they see it, and the conditioning of seeing this fantastic sex act in his eyes happening whenever he logs onto a porn site. Because it happens every single time without fail with a variety of girls on screen they may start to believe that this is truly the way women act and if a woman does not then she is boring and no good sexually. A lot of men can make the disconnect of the fantasy porn world and reality, but for those who do not make that dissociation they end up unhappy thinking they are not receiving what "they deserve".

[CHANDLERS WISH]

On another note where compatability has meaning.

I wonder. We all learn about sex, sexuality, sensuality.. Or hopefully we do.

If we previously had a partner that maybe was pure lust, and every time sex was had it was awesome, exciting, fun, adventurous etc.

Then one day, we meet someone, fall in love and stay with that partner but the sex is nothing like the above. Has that then conditioned a person? They can not forget those feelings and want them again, as they are now not getting them? Mis-matched in a relationships sexually, as they had experienced exactly what they wanted sexually but was mis-matched emotionally with the other person.. So again, and still, mis-matched. But, does it not make the person what ever it is you learn and love? So, my thoughts are, therefore if they enter a different relationship with much less of what they had, could that be the reason why they need more and therefore, turn to porn... Therefore, it's not at all about the woman they are with, they love her.. It's about what they had that they now don't and try to keep alive . Perhaps. A thought..

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I can feel the temper slightly rising, slightly, maybe that's because I am an Aussie, reading an Aussie writing ..... debate is good... Talking is great... Getting slightly upset, yeah , na.

Some of the things you are stating, I've heard as well. Lordy, I've read them here over the past 4 years but there is alot of truth about compatability. For a woman to say " ewe you want that, that turns you on, no way", what does that honestly suggest to you? Between those two people? Why in the heck did these two people join as one?

Men like visualisation absolutely correct. That's why every second man stares at our boobs when we are walking down the street no matter what we are wearing... Especially in Queensland with that weather and the beach goers. But, men also like to see their partner naked, dressed up, in a bikini, pj's as they are cute... Do you not think that women have visualisation? I have a very vivid mind.. I see him in the shower and it turns me on, I don't have to close my eyes and think of Brad Pitt. But yes I can't deny if single I may not have used my "mind". But, the point is. Men do not "need" porn to live, they do not need porn as a stimulant. You would agree with that, if the woman, their partner did like anal, did like doing it outside, etc, etc, but like I said then are they compatable, were they ever? Sexually... And, there you may say "well yes they were at the beginning now he gets nothing unless he gives something back, or money".. Then were they compatable in the beginning? Is that an equal partner?

You need to remember that men and women are wired differently women use their brains for stimulation a man use sight. Just because you think it is wrong doesn' mean it is. What do women do to make a man feel sensual no bloke i have talk to has had it done them it is all about the women? What are the boundries based upon the female partners POV most of the time. Where is this boundry written i though a relationship should be mutal thing and each person's point respected.

And that is why I go down to the en-suite when my other half is in the shower because I used my brain, instead of sight? I like ItsASecrets reply regarding what women do to make a man feel sensual, backed up by JNS who is a male. But, it goes beyond that too. Sensuality, Sexuality and plain Horny, don't for one minute think that we "don't" think horny or act on it or react to it. We do.. But, most women do not want purely and only Sex. It's a turn off.

A relationship entered into and whilst growing should be about alot of communication, discussions and ensuring you are on the same page for the most part. How many men say "I agree" but really they either aren't listening, or agree just to win, or stay there only later to establish (once the woman falls for him), that he never agreed at all. Or visa versa for that matter .

The way you two have written your comments, is what i expected, you have tried to make me feel bad because my POV.

Oh pftttttttttt.. Us two have answered how we believe, our Opinion. I don't feel bad about something that I have written, if I believe in it, so why do you?

How would you take it if i came up to you as your partner and said that i wanted a discussion for the both of us to go to a nudist beach/camp how would you approch it? Answer honestly

I've already had that discussion and more.. We drove past Maslins Beach after lunch the other day... We were discussing building a pole home in the area and then commented how we could then go down to the beach naked. A woman walked past my fiance barely dressed and he stated " I need to see that again when she walks back past" I laughed.. Outside sex is exciting, different, adventurous... You guys if you are having problems, then you are dating, marrying the wrong person. One who is not open minded, doesn't believe in the reality that all relationships take work, doesn't know the difference of sexual, sensual and horny and doesn't know how to make each other feel important, loved and anything goes within, boundries, anal and I are still out of the question...

[ItsASecret]

Its quite possible he hadn't. I didn't have that for 25 years.

I agree. It is very possible to not have a woman ravage her man, or not necessarily ravage but act in that manner at all. I do not ravage, not because I do not love him but because I am just not a 'ravage' type girl. I love him but I am not an outwardly expressive pinning a guy down at any moment type girl, I am just not that way and other women may be the same. That does not mean I do not love him, it just means that is not how I express myself and again other women may be the same. I show my love with the sensual things like kissing his body and massages but I am not the type to jump on him in the middle of the afternoon and ride while screaming to orgasm. Some women may do that but not all will. It is all in the personality of the individual. Some are more expressive and some are more quiet. Expressive women may pin her husband to the wall the second he comes in the door, it is far less likely that the quiet reserved girl will do that based solely on her personality. If her way of showing her love for you is by a cuddle and a smile during oral then so be it, a man should know the way his SO will act based on her personality. Expecting a woman to "ravage" per se because other women do it can be too much for that particular reserved woman, that "well you expect me to have a different personality huh?" will cross her mind and can be hard to accept. Some women change their personality but not all. It takes communication and understanding of how your partner is, male or female. Some men are not highly expressive even if their SO wants them to be, he may be the more sultry kiss her body type instead of pin her to the wall type. Some men may be very expressive to an also expressive woman. The variety is all over the place however alongside the less expressive is unfortunately the individuals who are not expressive at all in any way and as a result their SO can be stuck in a emotionless relationship.

[rcoreyus]

Its quite possible he hadn't. I didn't have that for 25 years.

Unshaw, seriously, you have never had a woman who pursued you in the relationship, who wanted sex every bit as much as you did? A woman who gave you oral because she wanted you to have excitement and fun? A woman who jumped on top to get you off? A woman who initiated kissing with a lot of tongue? I have had this.

[Hopeless Dork]

To me that like this dillusional sense of entitlement. OHHH you won't go to a nude beach with me? I deserve to go to one with a beautiful girl... so I will watch a porn and pretend I'm at a nude beach with a beautiful girl... rather than get in that bed and be with you, that'll show you! Pfft. Its almost childish. When we grow up we learn not entitled to everything. If a chick wants a diamond every month... she needs to marry a rich man. She can't marry a pizza delivery guy then make him feel bad every single day that he isn't buying diamonds each month... and turn her affections away from him , feeling justified because her unrealistic whims aren't met.

Same vein.. a man knows what a woman is like, or should know, when he settles down with her... if she's not a nude beach kinda chick and you want a nude beach kinda chick -- go get one, rather than look for excuses and justifications to reduce intimacy with her because you deserve harems and orgies and she isnt doing it.

Shaw, no one said a thing about masturbation bad, shame shame shame. The discussion here is about men who don't have sex with their partner as much as they fly solo and all the hurt it causes.

As for the women that don't pleasure their man for no reason, I call BS. I do it frequently, never wanting anything but what I always want...to feel special, loved and wanted.

[jns]

Women will spoon their guy, massage their guy, kiss him all over his body, lick his body, tell him he is good looking, whisper sweet nothings in his ear about how nice his body is and so on.

Absolutely true.

[ItsASecret]

The question i asked was "What do women do to make a man feel sensual, no bloke i have talk to has had it done them, it is all about the women?" and you never answered the question.

I did answer. My answer was that men in general especially when asked by other men like their 'bros' will say that their woman does not get lovey dovey with them with unannounced massages because to a manly man they are not "into" those types of things. Most guys do not want to admit that they do get massages and that they do love them, that type of response usually happens with the younger men because they are immature, but the stance still remains that when guys get into talking about that emotional, loving, sensual stuff they will clam up and pretend it does not happen even if it does because their friends may think it is dumb for a guy to like that stuff. Usually men will open up later on with close friends but those young guys especially they are not about to admit that they love to fall asleep being spooned by their gf or wife. It is just that general sense of "men should not have that side" which is quite unfortunate for them to think. Women will spoon their guy, massage their guy, kiss him all over his body, lick his body, tell him he is good looking, whisper sweet nothings in his ear about how nice his body is and so on. Women do get sensual, a man though may not want to admit to his buds that it happens because it has that sensual aspect instead of a primal side that some men think is the only side a man should have done to him.

"So what is the difference between a women having a porn (erotic) dream (sex only) about someone they have met, and a man looking on the screen?"

Dreams are out of one's control. There is zero, none, no control over dreams outside. Anything you view in your daily life can be incorporated into a dream simply by the process of it entering your memory. If they see someone on the street and they think "hot she is fine" and later that night they have an uncontrolled dream of that person there is nothing one can do. They may not intend to have that dream, heck it could be of Angelina Jolie, but it is out of their control and if the dreams occurs their neurons have decided that seeing that image earlier in the day is what it is going to be about. Just like if you see a butterfly in the park one day during your lunch break at work and for some reason you dream of being in the park again looking at that butterfly, you do not choose to have that dream but your mind just decides to that night. As for the computer screen it is complete choice. A man chooses to sit down, a man chooses to search their favorite porn site, a man chooses to type in their favorite porn actress or porn act into the search bar, and the man chooses to pretend to be the man in the act pounding that fantasy girl. That is the difference, the choice.

[jns]

The question i asked was "What do women do to make a man feel sensual, no bloke i have talk to has had it done them, it is all about the women?" and you never answered the question.

Unshaw, seriously, you have never had a woman who pursued you in the relationship, who wanted sex every bit as much as you did? A woman who gave you oral because she wanted you to have excitement and fun? A woman who jumped on top to get you off? A woman who initiated kissing with a lot of tongue? I have had this.

[Unshaw]

Yeah because your 'blokes' are going to say "having her hold me in bed is the honestly a feeling I crave because it feels so nice to just be held like that". A lot of guys will jump around on the ground laughing saying "yo dog you so gay for wanting dat bro hahahahahaha". Even though that guy laughing may think the exact same thing about loving that cuddle from his gf at night or during sex. A lot of guys think there is no such thing as those emotions in men, they must be primal animals always in it to just bang hard and show that "they are wicked" and not have a soft side that admits that having that loving touch is such a nice thing to occur. However if that man talks to his wife he will say things like "I love that you hold me at night instead of me spooning you", or that backrub by her he may love, or the leg massage whatever it may be you know? He may not want to admit it to his bro's but to his wife he really enjoys it.

What are you on about, i said nothing about mates (bros) knowing anything. So what happens between you and your partner stays between you and your partner. The question i asked was "What do women do to make a man feel sensual, no bloke i have talk to has had it done them, it is all about the women?" and you never answered the question. Just like the comment above "To me having my woman get off is most of the fun" i should ask him after he has the same partner for 15+ years if he still feels the same way, as they get use to it, and want it done like that all the time. As i have some women put it "i trained him well i get everything" or " what is mine is mine and what is his is mine" .

I asked question randomly to some the guys i work with. Has their wife/partner give a massage for no reason at all? everyone of the said no. Then i asked have you ever given their wife/ partner a massage and not expected anything in return and all reply yes.

Everytime a women has been nice to me there has been a reason behind it. Weather it was buying a new mat for the dining room, to mowing the yard, to putting a scratch on the car, to baby sittng the kids they always suck up. Men are not angles either

"if it does not involve you starting ogling and drooling over naked teenagers

this is what i was talking about a the top

came to the same conclusion everytime any of them have bought up something to spice things up they get 50 questions about it why, how can you fine that a turn on, that is disgusting

you had to ask the not trust your BF question.

Also you never answered the question its a secert "So what is the difference between a women having a porn (erotic) dream (sex only) about someone they have met, and a man looking on the screen?"