[jns]

I guess you're right. Interestingly, I'll say there's a cultural difference. We're Asian, and we're not used to expressing our affection so explicitly. A true story demonstrates this: an Asian couple (not us) when to counseling. The wife complains that every time they have argument, he'll quietly go wash dishes or do some chores. The counselor asks him why, he says that's just his way of expressing his affection. (BTW, what's funny is that when the counselor tells her about it, she says: "So the dishes are more important than me?" I'll say this is not a typical Asian wife's behavior.)

We tend to do things instead of say things to show our affection--in our culture, words can be useless and even phony if that's all one does--what's the use of saying "I love you" but don't do the chores? That'll be a joke, a hypocrite. I remember watching an episode of "Everybody Loves Rayman," Rayman has a hard time saying "I love you" to his wife. I smiled: we even have a hard time to say I love you to our kids. Our culture teaches us that as long as I do things for you, you should know that it is out of love (yeah, not a good assumption). For example, I like cooking for my family, usually the biggest meals of the week are Sat. and Sun nights. My wife will order what she likes and I'll do it (e.g., fried squids, steak, or something new), sometimes the preparation takes half of the whole afternoon. But I get satisfaction and warm feeling when I see her (and kids', of course) face of enjoyment. The point is: I find it much easier doing things instead of saying it.

And my wife is a typical Asian woman: kids are her first concern. She'll invest much more energy and time on kids, and to us that's our culture, nothing wrong with it. Years ago I suggested that every week we should eat out, you know, like candle light dinner, as a romantic date. She said no, "because eating out without kids makes me feel guilty." I was disappointed, but understood.

That said, giving her a kiss and tells her I love you even when there's a disagreement is a good advice. It's difficult I should admit, and emotionally I do have resistance. But I'll try, at least start from some easier things like hugs.

By the way, Jondoe, good luck and best wishes on the counseling, no matter what the outcome is.

Joseph, my wife is Asian, too. Not being Asian myself, I can break some of the rules. I do know that my wife has noticed on the very few occasions I have forgotten to give her a kiss (usually from rushing to go to work.) Being married to an Asian lady has allowed me to see the dynamics inside of Asian families (my relatives on her side.) I also spent a lot of time and effort to be able to speak her language, not perfectly, but well enough to have long conversations.

[Stillness]

So, it sounds like what we're hearing is that it's good to get flowers for her sometimes. But every once in a while, out of the blue, when she's walking by you need to trip her. Let her know you're a little bit of a jerk. Keep her on her toes...figuratively, because literally she will be on the floor wondering what is wrong with you, confused, yet aroused.

[kdc]

Maybe this is why some people have found ultimatums to work. A says that they have had enough and the problem needs to end or they will leave. Of course in that case A needs to be willing to leave and not come crawling back.

In my case, I had gotten to breaking point and was ready to throw in the towel. For quite a while, I'd been telling DH, "One of these days, I'm going to leave, and it'll be three days before you realize I'm gone." He'd come back with, "Don't let the door hit you in the a*# on your way out." When I finally left, he was totally shocked that I'd actually done it. A week later, I saw a lawyer and filed for divorce, and he **knew** I'd had it. I saw a change in him right away, but I figured he was just putting on an act to get me to come home. I kept telling him to forget it, it wasn't happening, and I had absolutely no intention of going back to him. But little by little, over a period of six months, I became convinced he was changed and meant business.

Looking back, I think leaving was one of the smartest things I ever did. I shudder to think of what our marriage would have been like if I'd stayed and put up with things the way they were.

[JonDoe]

I don't do all of these acts of kindness every day. For example, I'll get her a coffee every few weeks. Flowers every few months. Some are daily like saying nice things, other things vary.

Over-niceness is definitely not the problem. I could, and probably should do more; in fact, she has said so herself. So in recents months, I have put more effort into meeting her needs. She is no longer complaining about me not doing enough acts of kindness and has switched to saying her emotional needs are not being met, but when I asked her what that looks like for her she responded with "I don't know."

This happened a few times, but the the next time we discussed it, she said "we just need to talk more about serious stuff, and you need to open up." The irony is that I try to talk to her about serious stuff, but she avoids these types of conversations with me, and says "I just want to watch TV, then go to bed" or "Can't we just watch a movie?" as she cuddles the dogs.

The major problems for me are that she is self-centered in our relationship, dismissive of my feelings, unsupportive, and then there is the whole sexual inequality, which I've posted about numerous times.

[Stillness]

I'm starting to think that sexual inequality is not as bad as it sounds. If two people love (actions, not feelings) each other, then you can work through. No one has exactly the same drive at all times, but plenty of people have a fulfilling sex life.

[Josephlin101]

I also spent a lot of time and effort to be able to speak her language, not perfectly, but well enough to have long conversations.

That's so nice! I always admire people who work so hard to be accepted by their partners' culture. Good for you.
BTW, Asia is a very huge and diverse place, each country has its own traditions. Far East Asian (us) do have some similar cultural values, but Japan vs. Korea vs. China vs. Taiwan vs. Vietnam... all have their differences.

...resentment due to over-niceness and over-accommodation is a very real thing for women

Actually, I've noticed that. But why? Why would many women (but I believe not all women) say "I dump him because he's too nice?" Should we men not be nice to women? Or just be nice "sometimes" so the niceness seems to be extremely "nice?" (like what Stillness says?)

I'm starting to think that sexual inequality is not as bad as it sounds. If two people love (actions, not feelings) each other, then you can work through. No one has exactly the same drive at all times, but plenty of people have a fulfilling sex life.

Agree.

Looking back, I think leaving was one of the smartest things I ever did. I shudder to think of what our marriage would have been like if I'd stayed and put up with things the way they were.

Awesome, good for you!

[jen1447]

Actually, I've noticed that. But why? Why would many women (but I believe not all women) say "I dump him because he's too nice?" Should we men not be nice to women? Or just be nice "sometimes" so the niceness seems to be extremely "nice?" (like what Stillness says?)

That's probably a topic for a whole other (very lengthy) thread. Maybe even it's own forum - 'Why Women Feel, Think and Act The Way They Do.'

[rcoreyus]

Why some women reject nice guys and want "bad boys" - only to be surprised when they are well.... bad, is a good topic. I started it once here years ago but it didn't get much traction.

That's probably a topic for a whole other (very lengthy) thread. Maybe even it's own forum - 'Why Women Feel, Think and Act The Way They Do.'

[Stillness]

What I think many women want is a protector and leader. A leader is willing to pave new ground and take risks to gain advantage. A protector is willing to do what's necessary for the safety of those belonging to him. What's being called a "bad boy" has some of those traits since he is not necessarily going along with established behavior and may be a little tougher.

That's why you've got to grab that butt sometimes - kinda hard, like a spank followed by a grip. And you don't look at her afterwards like, "Is that OK?" You just keep doing what you were doing before she walked that stuff in front of your face. And if she turns around questioning your behavior, you just give her a knowing nod and a smirk. If she lingers too long, you give her a look, like "WHAT." But it's not a question. It's a statement. You're saying, "Just a few centuries ago I would have raided your village, taken you by force, and to show my affection made you my primary wife. Now you get me all to yourself, an occasional box of chocolates, and a smack on that booty. Keep it moving unless your want to be intimate right now, because I wouldn't mind taking a break from this wood-crafting."

That's my understanding. That doesn't make you bad. It makes you a man.

[rcoreyus]

I'd be really interested to see how many women agree / disagree with Stillness.