[Stillness]

Oh, by the way, virginity is a social concept. It doesn't really exist.

I didn't want to derail the thread of one of the new members, but I'm intrigued by this. Please lay out the thinking, if you don't mind, sp.

[DreamP346]

Many have written on this topic so I won't rewrite why virginity is a social construct (sorry, typo in previous thread). So this is from The Belle Jar and it sums things up really nicely. The only think I would add is that the hymen is a membrane. You don't lose it. It can actually grow back, not be big enough to tear, etc.
Virginity is not a thing. Not really. It is a social construct meant to make people, especially women, feel badly about their sexuality and sexual experience. It is a way of policing other people’s bodies and passing judgment on how they use them. It is, at its very core, a way of controlling and subjugating women.
One problem with the idea of virginity is that there’s no hard and fast way of deciding who’s a virgin and who isn’t. Many people would define loss of virginity in a very heteronormative sense – a sexual act where the penis penetrates the vagina. But does that mean, then, that a queer woman who has only ever been with other women is a virgin? Is a gay man, who has only ever had anal sex, a virgin? Most people, when pressed, would agree that no, those folks aren’t really virgins, even if they’ve never had penis-in-vagina-style intercourse. The flip side of this is that many rape victims don’t feel as if they have lost their virginity even if they’ve had penetrative intercourse forced on them. They consider themselves to be virgins because they don’t consider what happened to them to be sex. So taking all of that into consideration, how do we then define virginity?
Some people have said that performing any sexual act constitutes losing one’s virginity, but that seems like much too broad of a definition. Kids start experimenting with sexual play and experimentation at a fairly young age, so does it then follow that anyone who’s kissed someone of the opposite sex or shown them their genitals has de facto lost their virginity? I’m not sure that this idea makes any more sense than saying that virginity can only be lost through one very specific sexual act.
Another problem is that there is literally no way of knowing if someone is a virgin or not. Oh, people will tell you that you can check if a woman’s hymen is broken, but that’s not a reliable indicator at all. A hymen can be broken without any kind of sexual intercourse, through sports or through some kind of injury. Not all women are born with hymens. Not all hymens tear during penetrative sex. And yet we’ve all been sold this idea of torn flesh and blood on sheets as some kind of definite rite of passage for women. This idea – that you can somehow tell if a woman has been sexually active – has contributed to the oppression and subjugation of women for pretty much all of recorded history. It’s given men a way to control women, to make them ashamed of their bodies their sexuality. It’s led to a double standard where it’s fine – even encouraged – for boys to gain sexual experience, but women who are sexually active before marriage or have sex with too many people are considered to be ****ty or damaged goods.

[Stillness]

Interesting. I'd thought of some of those things before, but just never the "virginity is not real" part.

I'd just say that a virgin is someone who's never had sex.

[Ashlee T.]

I think what virginity is associated with IS a social construct. Someone, at some point decided that virginity was a virtue, a prize, (only in the case of women, I might add) and as a result, "LOSING" our virginity has long since been considered a negative thing or a frowned upon thing. The very fact that we are said to LOSE it or become "deflowered" shows the social message behind it.

Yes, it's just a word. And for most of us it means nothing. Just a word that describes whether or not you've had intercourse. But if we really studied the history behind the word, we'd definitely see a social construct.

[Stillness]

I was changed after sex. I felt different. It was a definite turning point in my life. I had a bond with my girlfriend at that time that I had never had with anyone else. It interfered with my relationship with the woman that became my wife. Frankly, it does still.

In general, besides the emotional bonding, there are issues of paternity, disease, and chastity. Those are not just concerns for men and they're not just fictional ideas.

[Ashlee T.]

Not for me. I mean, yeah, I had experienced something I had never experienced before so that part was new. But I did not feel an emotional bond with the person afterwards and still don't to this day. But, you probably had a stronger connection with your gf to start with and that's what made the big difference. Your experience was much more intimate but that's not necessarily the norm.

Boys have always been encouraged (by society) to NOT be virgins as if they are uncool and unmanly if they do not have sex. But women receive a conflicting societal message to be sexual, pleasing creatures, but also be pure. It's a weird dynamic.

Not really related, but sort of: Around here, in most stores, pregnancy tests are put behind the counter. A girl has to ask the cashier for one. They say this is because theft rates of pregnancy tests are high. But condoms are out on shelves and are in much smaller boxes.....yet we're supposed to believe theft rates of those aren't also high? Or maybe they're not because boys aren't taught to be ashamed of their sexuality so they're not uncomfortable buying condoms. There is a big part of me that feels (since this is the Bible belt after all) that this is yet another way to humiliate and embarrass girls for being "impure". I'm 33 and I still don't like having to go ASK a cashier for a preg test while standing in a line of people. Imagine what a 16 year old feels like.

[Stillness]

I don't disagree with anything you said, BD. None of that changes the fact that at some point you had not had sex and now you have.

[DreamP346]

I don't disagree with anything you said, BD. None of that changes the fact that at some point you had not had sex and now you have.

According to who's definition of sex? Your's? Then it is a opinion based status, not an absolute objective one. That is why virginity is a social construct. It is not a fact. It is an opinion. And one created to police women's sexuality.

[atskitty2]

Well, it seems to me y'all are getting confused on this one...or maybe I am. My meds leave me a bit foggy in the mornings.<br />
<br />
The definition of virginity is what it is. That is the definition, no interpretation or cultural differences attached. That's just what it is. Really no disagreement to be had there.<br />
<br />
I think the point of this is the stigma attached to our virginity by society, and how that differs for men and women. In that way, it is a "social construct" in our culture, and in our world. It's shaped by religion and tradition and other cultural factors.<br />
<br />
I completely agree with this. <br />
<br />
I remember being taught that we, as girls, were the ones with the "power" to say no. Boys were seldom pulled aside in groups, given lectures about not having sex prior to marriage. Boys were expected to chase tail and girls were left with the "power", ie, *responsibility* to say no.<br />
<br />
The ideas and attitudes toward virginity are cultural and social. This was my experience, also in the Bible belt

[Stillness]

According to who's definition of sex? Your's?

How about a dictionary? Or use your own. It's a real thing regardless of how you feel about it or define it.

Also, I think how you feel about virginity and chastity is influenced by your own beliefs and culture. In my culture, chastity is valued and encouraged in men as much as it is in women. The lack of it is met with the same discipline.

I also think the larger culture is changing. I'm working on a partnership with an old associate. I expressed surprise that the manager of the office I used to work out of was gone. He was very successful. He told me that he's running it now because there was an incident with a woman that cost him his job. Men are not getting away with promiscuity like they used to. More and more, women are seen as liberated if they are.