[atskitty2]

Euphoric:
I've done what you suggest, essentially. Thanks for chiming in, and pls offer more based on my further details:

When I say I've "taken charge" only once, I mean from start to the time I gave up. I provide coaching/coaxing as we move along, but he just doesn't seem to pick up and follow explicit directions, or subtle encouragement. I mean explicit as in, "I don't have particularly sensitive nipples, I need you to start slow & gentle, concentrating on the whole boob, and gradually be more rough, then focusing on the nipple", and then I demonstrated first with my hand, and then HIS hand what I like. Then it was right back to some erratic movement that barely touched my body at all, never mind my nipples...lol

I do tend to be a very slow, sensual kind of person. I like looking into his eyes, and lots of touching & really feeling, focusing & enjoying every single second, every movement & touch...his approach is very different. In describing it to a girlfriend, I told her I felt like he was Houdini trying to make me disappear, his hands were moving around my body so quickly, but never actually touching me anywhere...and some glazed over look toward me (not really at me) that was just odd...

Once when he was casting this sort of spell, I took his forearms, stopped him, placed his hands on my waist & slowly moved them down to my hips and began kissing him very passionately, (I thought) but the moment I let go of his arms to hold his head & pull him closer, he went back into helicopter mode, waving around as if he'd lost his balance or something...
I'm not kidding, I've really been reduced to laughter, and I imagine he's been embarrassed, but I just don't know what he's doing!? It's the most bizarre thing, and I just don't know what to do. He does move quickly, which I can always control the pace, that's not a problem in itself, but this stuff is just out of control.

I am so attracted to him in every way. Then we get into these moments, and I just don't know what to do with it. I thought I was really falling for him hard, and now I'm just...I don't even know how to describe it. I'm so sad...that's all I can think of. Just sad.

If you could see him moving through the world, so graceful & handles himself so beautifully, and then to see him flailing in such moments...it doesn't make sense.

[Euphoric]

If specific explicit instructions don't work, then subtleties are a complete waste of time. I'm beginning to think you need to grab him by the ears, give him the irritated woman stare (as in no nonsense, all business) and tell him pointblank that the frenzied groping isn't working for you. Then go on to explain how much you enjoy his companionship and the emotional bond you share, but if he can't slow it down so that you can connect physically in a way that is meaningful, then you don't see the relationship working because you need both an emotional and physical connection. You can't connect when he is trying to feel your entire body in ten seconds.

He is trying to win a 50 yard dash and you're trying to complete a marathon - two very different styles of running. (Take comfort in knowing that you're so hot he can't contain himself!) It sounds like he is desperate - like a 16 year old hoping to get lucky before the end of the night. You are trying to not bruise his ego or hurt his feelings, but I honestly believe he doesn't understand that his sense of urgency is going to cost him an otherwise delightful relationship. Sadly, you will lose too, so I'm suggesting you be bold and blunt! (Not mean and hateful...) Really, you have nothing to lose because if he doesn't see the light, it's the end of the line. I do believe that this flailing-helicopter-Houdini-man can be tamed. It may take a bit of "shock factor," that you have no desire to continue in a physically inadequate relationship. Hopefully, he will realize you aren't supposed to sprint in a marathon event.

FWIW, he is THAT into you!

[atskitty2]

I'm not sure I'm creating an accurate picture. I just don't know how better to describe this thing.

[atskitty2]

In fairness Euphoric, as I've stated on the other thread moreso, I'm as or more concerned about whether I can please him. He says it's great, but at least once there was no obvious arousal on his part...so, it doesn't seem that he's just that into me.
I just don't know that I can change in the way that I'd be asking him.to change. That isn't fair and wouldn't be a good start to anything.

[beethovengenius]

I wonder Kitty, have you been wearing rose tinted glasses all this time and are only now beginning to realise that maybe just maybe that he may not be quite what you thought he was?

From reading you're description of him "he went back into helicopter mode, waving around as if he'd lost his balance or something..." and "I felt like he was Houdini trying to make me disappear, his hands were moving around my body so quickly, but never actually touching me anywhere...and some glazed over look toward me (not really at me) that was just odd..." he sounds like a complete idiot.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that is the impression I've formed from reading you're posts.

You sound like a great person to be with and also a very sensual person also. If MR. not so perfect can't see that soon, you are indeed a sensual person, then I don't think he will ever see it. And if he does not then I suggest giving him the boot.

There is also a danger when both men and women but especially women I think, tend to eventually lower their standard and just "settle". I think you will have to be cognizant of this.

[Euphoric]

Kitty,

Just because there was no obvious arousal on his part one time doesn't mean he wasn't aroused so don't think he is not into you. In every other facet of the relationship thus far, his actions say he IS into you. Asking him to "slow down and smell the roses" isn't a monumental request. Personally, I'm all for raw, hot sex, but I also like to make love. At this point in the relationship, he should have an idea of what you want and need based on your actions, as well as the explicit information you've shared. I could understand the groping, ready to get down to business and get your rocks off mentality if this was a "hookup" for both of you, but clearly that is not the case. All your posts, characteristically, suggest you like things casual, taking things slow, building a solid foundation, taking calculated risks, etc., as opposed to being a woman who likes to tumble between the sheets, rough and ready, etc. I'm not saying you'll never appreciate tumbling around and getting tangled between the sheets but now is not the time for him to skip the sensual needs you desire.

You need him to slow down and pay attention to details, and he wants to romp around. If he is willing to slow down, pay attention to details and give you what you need, then perhaps once you are comfortable, you'd be willing to tumble around on occasion. I'm simply trying to come up with suggestions for a feasible compromise that will work for both of you, the problem is this isn't so simple and to trivialize it would be wrong on so many levels :-(.

Negating your ability to satisfy him and placing "blame" on yourself isn't fair to YOU!

[atskitty2]

I don't think you're being harsh beethoven, but no, I don't think he's really an idiot and I've just not seen it. But yes, I agree that this looks & sounds like a goofball at play. It feels juvenile & completely out of place. This is what makes the whole scene so crazy - it's the fact that he is such a classy gentleman, smart & well-educated, well-traveled, well-cultured & has a professional job in which he's respected...he carries himself as a gentleman, is fit & very handsome. He's an intellectual, a geeky kind of guy really. I have wondered if it's partly culture, his upbringing or simply the sorts of habits he developed in his 16 yr marriage. Realize also, in his culture, he had no girlfriends, didn't have his first kiss until he was well into his 20's...his wife had been his first kiss & only lover.
If he were a bit of a nut outside the romantic moments, I wouldn't be so perplexed! LOL But he's a very serious kind of guy about 80% of the time.

I agree with you, and I don't intend to lower standards or settle for less than a thriving physical relationship at my age. Truly, I won't do that. I've been alone awhile, and maintained my happiness without a man & have no qualms in returning to that if all systems aren't operational. He has shown me, time & time again, that he is a giver, and he's made efforts to please me in every way, whether it's simple things like heat in the car, to the whole kissing debacle early on...I just believe that he will make real efforts if I can break through this time of trial & error...and I know that I will make those efforts for him. I'm just really trying to understand this. I think he does realize how sensual I am, and I think he has no idea what to do with it...any more than I know what to do with his approach to showing affection.

Euphoric, I do realize that I may have felt for something at the wrong moment...lol, and I realize it could mean he has some dysfunction & other explanations as well....there's no way to know. I know he's into me, generally speaking. What I mean is, I think that, in the way his methods turn me off, my style may not be doing anything for him either! LOL I'm not blaming myself, I'm just realizing that my way may be a turnoff for him too!
But trust me, I'm a sensual lover, but it's been a LONG time, and I want to get the intimate, emotional needs met & then I'm gonna bang the poor man until there's nothing left of either one of us...I'm horny, but I want it right. I don't want this feeling of disconnection when we're supposed to be at our closest moments.

I really don't get the impression he's a race to the finish guy either. We don't rush toward sex, we aren't reaching orgasms together regularly, we're simply showing intimacy & holding & kissing & touching fully clothed. We are enjoying each other - or trying to. We have mutually agreed that sex is weeks if not months away for us. This is HIS choice as well as mine. I think some of my comments aren't giving a full picture...at some points when I say something about speed, I'm meaning, how fast he's actually moving. Jerky movements of his hands, his face, his tongue, his whole body...I just do NOT understand it. Imagine a frog catching a fly - that's the type of motion sometimes. That versus my smoother movements. In music, it's staccato versus a whole note. I'm trying to give different pictures of what happens.
Maybe you do have a grasp of it...I'm so confused by it all.

[Something_Awesome]

I don't think you should give up just yet. Too much at stake (in the sense of how compatible you guys are outside of sexual behavior). He sounds so amazing outside of sex that it's totally worth trying to fix the guy in the area of sex. I just wish I could provide insight on how to fix him. You may need to be more blunt/direct with him, or it may be just that he has severe performance anxiety with you.

[atskitty2]

That's sort of how I feel SA, it's just too soon to give up, especially knowing he's relatively inexperienced generally speaking. And he's shown the desire and ability to change as needed, and demonstrated being a pleaser.
So frustrating...

[Something_Awesome]

Kitty, I think I'd be more worried about the rebound thing. I dunno... I got the hunch that you had some sort of deep-down-certainty about it. Anyway, keep us posted! Personally, I love hearing about peoples' new relationships! I know it sounds like a girl-thing to say, but don't get me wrong, it's not like The Notebook is one of my favorite movies of all time.