[atskitty2]

Jns, I think their sex life was rather vanilla, I can agree. But I don't think HE is vanilla or that he's not done self exploration, or had some "advanced technique" done to him, and has done to his wife. I also have spoken to him about his porn use, knowing that their sex life was boring and he was away a lot. He uses porn but not regularly, from what he told me, even up to now.
I think he is lacking confidence, in this area only.

He is trying to be respectful also, of our mutual decision to wait for full on sexual contact, so Idk if that stifles his activity too...

SA, I anxiously await your response.

[Something_Awesome]

Sorry for the late response! It was an overwhelming return to work (in a good way). OK, I finally get to tackle this!

First, I think your guy is lying (lying is a harsh word, more like bending the truth) about his past sex life. Don't be alarmed about the lying thing though (I'm pretty sure honesty is one of your core values). The guy is totally lying about how vanilla his sex life was. His sex life with his wife was probably non-existent (or just sucked really bad at best). Think about it. All the stuff you've described about his sensuality screams that he is very inexperienced or, at the least, that he has not been sexually active for a very long while. You're probably thinking that I am making a bold assumption (maybe I am), but I have a little story that may help put it in perspective.

A long time ago I was dumped by a girl when I told her I was a virgin (she was maybe my first real GF). She never explicitly told me she was a virgin or not, but I knew she wasn't. The day after I told her I was a virgin she stopped calling me and she stopped answering my calls. She never even formally dumped me; she just cut me off completely the very next day. I was really heartbroken but I understood why she did it. I am pretty sure it wasn't because she thought I wouldn't be able to "satisfy" her or that she thought I was a sissy for being a virgin. It was because if we had sex then it would be revealed to me that she lost her virginity before I did and that it'd make her look "dirty." I know this sounds weird to you but its how things were. She cut me off because she didn't want to feel ashamed (this is my guess based on the circumstances surrounding our relationship).

After I got dumped by her, I told myself that I wouldn't reveal to my next GF that I was a virgin. I even decided that I would lie if I was asked if I was a virgin or not (I am all about honesty, but I was not going to ruin a possibly great relationship over me being a virgin). I guess what I am trying to say is that, Kitty, your guy is going to lie about his sexual experience so that he does not lose you over sex before he even has a chance to try to keep with the sex (sex is part of it y'know). It may sound immature, especially at his age, but no freakin' guy is going to make it sound like he does not have sex or that he is clueless about sex. In my case, when I admitted to the girl that I was a virgin, it was just me being more honest than I probably ought to have been. Anyway, there's more to the story...

So along came the next GF and the virginity topic came up and I lied about being a virgin. We ended up having sex several times before I finally confessed the truth (that I was a virgin and that she took my virginity). She cried after I told her. She said if she knew I was a virgin that she would have tried to make it more special for me. Obviously, a completely different reaction from girl number one (which proves that lying is always bad in the long run). However, this brings me to my second point. This second GF was surprised I was a virgin. She had sex with a few guys (one of which she had sex with often) and she said she never would have guessed that I was a virgin. Our first time we had sex I went down on her and she said that was the best oral she ever had and that I totally did it like I knew what I was doing (lol, my research paid off). She actually thought I was joking at first when I said she took my virginity. Though I will say this, it did take me a couple seconds to find the clit (that was my only hiccup, so I can sort of relate to your guy LMAO), but I recovered like a champ! What I am trying to say is that there also needs to be a degree of intuition when it comes to sex. Granted, I did research some stuff so that I'd be ready, but sex is not all textbook. Intuition is important and I am hoping your guy has that. He needs to be able to let his intuition take over as opposed to his anxiety (I know he has that with you). My worry is that he has a lack of experience paired with a lack of intuition. If anything, root for him having a lack of experience, because he will get much better with time if he can be intuitive. If he is at all sensually intuitive then you will be fine.

Now I hope none of this turns you off about him, because what happened to me in the first part of my story sucked ROYALLY. I took it real hard (but I was very young though). Also, I don't think you should be put off if he just bent the truth. And you know what, maybe he was not bending the truth. Maybe to him having sex once every two weeks was a lot (I believe he said he had sex with his wife often but just that it was not good sex?) How you interpret "I had a lot of sex in my marriage" is relative. I know that for him to not be totally honest with you about his sex ability may make it seem like he is not valuing the time you are putting into the relationship by not being totally honest about the sex (sort of like he is trying to hide a deal breaker), but at the same time I think he should have a shot at sex before deciding that sex with him would be a deal breaker. Of course, waiting around means investing more time in dating a guy that may not be sensually compatible.

Third, I totally believe you are not exaggerating when you say how amazing this guy is outside of his sensuality. I also get that you're dumbfounded by how awkward he may seem when it comes to being sensual because his sensuality is so incongruent with how he is outside of being sensual. But I wonder about something... It's something that Jen1447 said on this forum that I thought was soooo true (she always had amazing insight though). She said that women can meet a "great guy" and, in their head, will build him up to be a total sex-god when he's nothing close to one. She said something to that effect (obviously more eloquently) and maybe the context in which she said it is not totally applicable to your situation, but I wonder if you set the sensuality-bar extremely high for the guy you are seeing because he's hit super high marks everywhere else.

When I take a moment to consider everything I have written so far, I don't think I've provided you with a solution to any problem (if you were even looking for a solution). I guess all I've done is provide you with my view of your situation; how I make sense of it all, I guess. I hope it helps and I really hope it does not turn you off about the guy. I understand women want the guy to be experienced because it does not seem masculine to not know how to be sensual with a women etc, and I think that is a valid desire for women to have. I hope everything works out. If the sensual stuff does not work out, well, you'd obviously be right to not settle.

[beethovengenius]

I think I agree with SA as regards the intuitive aspect of love making. It's kinda like sport or art, sure learning new skills can make you a better footballer however if you don't have that innate sense of space you will only achieve mediocre status at best. And by the sounds of you're description of him he seems to suffer from the sexual equivalence of "amusia"(a condition some people have where they cannot hear music only noise) and if that is indeed the case the it is unlikely he will improve much if at all.

I wonder if you asked him why they separated? And if she cheated on him? It's possible that one of the reasons she left him was because he was a lousy lover.

[atskitty2]

I have actually considered your suggestion SA, and yours too, Beethoven. She actually did cheat on him, according to him. He is away a lot, travel is part of his job. It actually did enter my mind that she just couldn't "train" him to please her, or please him herself, & lost interest in trying after all those years. So, it could be due to the distance physically or emotionally, or sexually...who knows why she went elsewhere.

SA, I had thought long about your idea, before you presented it here...just a little gut feeling, but none of his accounts support that he's exaggerating his experiences. He's said that they had sex 1-3 times per week, even when he's only home for a few days/week due to work. He said they made up for it on the weekends. He did say tho, that she was not interested in sex, and would just lie there and allow him to have sex, not really participating. She never denied him anything he wanted, but wasn't into it at all. It all seems to add up, in his accounts-nothing has the ring of UN-truth about it, making me think he's being completely forthright, in his own views, of their experience at least.

So, I can see how, if she wasn't asking to be touched a certain way or taking an assertive stance, he wouldn't be pleasing to her either...all speculation, on my part.

Another update for you, and this one leaves me less hopeful. Last night, we started messing around. I wasn't really as much in the mood as he was, I'd had a stressful day & my mind was wound up from the day's events, and I couldn't calm my energies.
So, we were kissing, playing around & I told him I didn't need to get off, that I wanted to focus on him, pleasing him only [tonight]...but he kept insisting to get me off...I was getting frustrated because I really knew I couldn't & didn't want to. I finally had to say to just stop, that I'd said 3 times already that I want it to be all about him. I told him I understood he was trying to relieve my tension & I appreciated that very much, but I just didn't need it. It felt so good to be close to him, and I wanted to direct my attention to him, knowing that would please me more, and knowing, for my confidence, I just need to know I could please him. So, after I said that, he stopped with me for a bit, but then went back toward me...I thought perhaps HE needs to touch me & please me, in order to feel good himself, so I allowed him to touch me and I enjoyed it then-knowing it was probably what HE actually needed at the time. This went on for a long time...he couldn't get off with anything I did...After some point, I had to stop & say I'm exhausted...it had been a LONG time. He proceeded to finish himself, rather quickly...and I was nearly in tears. Of course, I didn't let him see that, but... He again tried to go for me, and I said no, that this all just seems really forced & unnatural. I assured him I really didn't need an orgasm. We held each other then...as usual & talked more before we fell asleep. I told him again, during this pillow talk, how upsetting it was for me to be trying all the weapons in my arsenal outside of oral, or sex itself & to leave him unsatisfied...he said those things have never been pleasing to him...then I pointed out that he was able to help himself in short order, but I couldn't...and why that is? He said it just takes a long time, and he's more used to his own hand now.

At some point in all this, he did dry hump me, and I was hoping that wasn't how he'd actually have sex, meaning, the motion & stroke he has. No rhythm...
but I hate to make a judgement based on that...

I'm at a loss here...I really am.
I am crazy about him, and it feels amazing to be near him, then it turns out feeling like some skit from Comedy Central or something...

Now, I realize my bluntness there may have been a bit of a turn-off for him, so I'm not sure, in context what this really indicates. It was just not a pleasant time...and I'm not sure if it's because I was wound up with stress. But then, it really isn't all that different from other times, except that I didn't want an orgasm myself...but I do know, that he's very much the giver too...he wants me to be satisfied, so I robbed him of that last night...
I'm so confused.

After last night, I'm beginning to think it's a lost cause. I'm a very passionate person, a passionate lover I think...in my own estimation...and his approach is mechanical. He talks dirty, which I like...but it just doesn't seem to flow...I don't know what it is...

Your discussion above is interesting about intuition...he is a VERY intuitive man in life. He meditates, he does yoga & is very tuned in to himself, to me & those around him. It's one of the things I love about him. He met someone close to me, and as soon as we walked away, he turned to me & said, you two recently had a falling out, didn't you? I asked him how he could have possibly known that...he said he could just sense a tension there...deep love & respect, but tension. I was floored. He's done this sort of thing many times...picked up on subtle changes in my mood, my comments or wants...and is sensitive to things I've said-he really pays attention, and analyzes things. That's annoying at times, but he leaves it alone if I ask him to.
Then...in the bed...??? Why does that passion, intuition & sensitivity not carry into the bed?

I've entertained the idea that it's partly cultural. I dated a man of his race many years ago, that was similarly inexperienced physically, but then, we were younger & didn't advance this far sexually either. But there was a similar "vibe" from him, as if he didn't know what to do with me beyond kissing me.

I've never been unable to satisfy a man. I've had to deal with the other extreme (premature ejaculation) fairly regularly, but this is all new. This is a serious blow to me. I've had men that were less-than-pleasing to me, but I've never had difficulty in this area. Not that I've been with tons of partners, either. Not sure I've ever been so confused, and lost as to the answer. I'm just not ready to give up...

geesh...anyone have thoughts? Am I being unreasonable? or setting unreasonable expectations at this stage? Am I just denying the writing on the wall here?
My own intuition had been telling me to give it more time, but after last night, honestly, I'm not sure time is what we need.

[beethovengenius]

Well I do empathize with you kitty, it sounds like you really do want it to work. However I am a realist and as I stated in a previous post he seems to lack that intuitive understanding of love making. He can learn to improve certain aspects of love making but if he is lacking that innate awareness it's always going to be an uphill struggle.

Personally from what I have read of all you're posts to date I would suggest parting ways. It is not my intention to rub it in but I think the fact that the wife left and cheated on him, strongly indicates to me at least that he is not going to improve as a lover.

If I may be so bold to say, judging from the many reservations you have expressed in recent posts I think you know this yourself.
Also I do think he has sexual amusia.

[beethovengenius]

A bit off topic, but I find it interesting that most of the posters that have been following and commenting on you're posts Kitty have all been men,. I wonder why? It's strange because this is a woman's forum after all, right?

[atskitty2]

Yep, been wondering where my girls are too!
I think I know you're right, as I'm realistic & logical mostly. But I'm not one to give up easily either, and I guess that's why I'm still fighting for it. He's a great mate for me, but this simply isn't acceptable. I had a less than stellar sex life in my marriage, and anything less than a hot sex life is just not going to work for me again. I know that. I hesitate to say someone is perfect for me, but this guy is a great match, we compliment each other so well in every other way. I'd rather there be misfires in other cylinders, than the sexual one this time...

I love his smile, and his touch turns me on. HE turns me on in so many ways. I love how he holds me & is close to me, but when things go toward a sexual attitude, it just falls apart...it's so frustrating!

[jns]

kitty, I'm so sorry that he brought you almost to tears. Most guys would know how to masturbate so they reach climax. The quickness may have been at least partially due to the sexual excitement he got from being with you. What he probably needs to do with you is to slow down, relax and let go. I know because I was at that exact point early on in my sexual life. I had a psychological block because of my perceiving of my partner as being so perfect. The frustration was almost unbearable. It took quite a while to get over it. Don't consider it as your tools being bad. The perception led me to get too much sensation which led to being desensitized. A lot of it was I didn't know how to slow things down physically and in my head. That had came naturally during self masturbation. I also didn't know how to ramp it up and ramp it back down to limit the desensitization at the same time as building the sexual tension.

As untrained as guys can be when they are starting out, most can be trained in this arena if they have an willingness to learn.

[atskitty2]

I'm not sure I understand you completely jns. Are you suggesting that he's overstimulated in some sense, due to so much self gratification, that he cannot yet adapt to the touch and feel of another person?
I could see that and understand it, but it doesnt account for the other behavior that I find troubling romantically.

I will think of this, talk to him about it maybe, and see if its a good explanation...would be a relief to me as that's smth I can work with.

[jns]

I am suggesting that over stimulation leads to fatigue in a biological sense. Additional stimulation at that point does not lead to additional sensation, but rather deadening of sensation or possibly pain. In my case I started out with being mentally stimulated to the point that only a little physical stimulation would lead to over stimulation. Mentally I started having doubts at that point because I was certain that I was getting enough physical stimulation to climax. Slow down and relaxing help with limiting stimulation. If he he is having a similar problem, then my solution may work.