[CHANDLERS WISH]

CW, It very well could have been, she tried to leave when we lived in North Carolina but she was under the guise that she did not want her Chemo Therapy to hold back my career, I had all ready pushed my report date to my new unit back by 6 months and she said she felt guilty of that, so she moved out. Whether or not that was true, I do not know and probably never will.

I can't really say exactly how I felt, I was in the house with a woman yes, and I tried very hard, at times, and at other times I did not have the energy or the drive, so this is not all on her shoulders, but its not all on mine either. That is something I understand and grasp, I am not here to just bash her for the past few years of our marriage.

You know one thing i love about people coming back to their threads and replying is that more things come out and hopefully more understanding is had... Kind of opens "your eyes" a bit each time...

Thank you for opening up more and more and caring enough to reply to the posters..

So, take me back a bit then.

She had Cancer and you were going to be deployed held it off, she was going to leave because she didn't want to stop you...

You both feared about having a child because of the return of Cancer? And Mother and baby may die?

During all of this , this is when you tried but then kind of went onto the games on the Computer?

And, wasn't there other issues before you two being together as well, that weren't that good for her?

I think that it sounds like she has never felt secure in her life, (before you) and can't handle security only fun and that's it... So commitment and her don't go hand in hand therefore marriage.

Yet, i assume she is committed to your child, why 2 babysitters? Is that because she works to make a living as well, bringing additional income into the family that is, or is she not as maternal?

I don't actually want to reply yet and I am sorry for the 60 questions haha.. But, there seems to be a few different things here.

CW

[thack]

<('.'&lt This one got a little long (>'.')>

Who knows CW, and no worries about the posts if you feel they are harsh or not, that is why I am here, sometimes the advice you need isn't the stuff you want to hear. So, honesty is what is going to help me grow from this, like I said, I have never blamed her 100% for this, its a marriage, and marriages require (in my opinion) 200% worth of effort - 100% from each person, no less.

And I am indeed guilty of not putting forth my 100% every minute of every day. My way of coping with a lot of the tension, anxiety, stress, and loneliness was my video game.(instead of the bar and another woman's attention) And sadly, my coping mechanism was probably, well not probably, it became an issue, but I was unable to get her to open up at all, thus, driven back into my dimly lit computer room.

Now before I answer your questions CW, I had a conversation on the phone with her last night,

She still thinks I am wasting effort having people stake out the house, follow her around Colorado Springs, and just do surveillance on her, AS well, she thinks that I have programs on her computer still that report her every move to me. (while I know of some, I don't want that information, all the tidbits of info I get from people who just happen to see her out on the town hugging and kissing on some guy who's grabbing her *** hurts enough on its own, let alone sourcing it directly from HER computer)

I asked her this "how can you just go from 1 relationship to another like this" and her response was this: "I was done in '05 so I have had a 4 year gap in relationships"

Now, this is BULL in my opinion, when I asked her why she didn't leave or talk about splitting with me before she said "we never had the money" - she knows about JAG, she went to them before she did this, she knew about JAG back at Fort Bragg (she went to them) and it would cost about $300.00 total to run it through them with all the civility in the world between us.
I then made the comment - "I told you if you really did not think we were working out in Ft Bragg that I would help you find a new place and wish you the best, and I could have stayed around to help you through the Chemo as a friend, you said you wanted to work on it, wanted to get us back on track, and GOT OUT OF THE AIR FORCE so we could not worry about both of us being deployed at the same time for when we decided to have children...."

AND in May, when she told me she wanted a divorce, I accepted it one night, I wanted to give her a good night kiss, and I asked her for one "marriage counselors orders, no un-requested kissing/touching" and she rolled over and blew me off. SO, I said, "ok, I guess that is that, we can work this out and get it done before I go to Iraq" and I went downstairs to sleep on my couch, about 1 hour later, she comes downstairs crying and apologizing, saying that she did not want a divorce, and that she wanted to continue our counseling and figure out what was wrong and happening between us as a couple. That she did in fact love and and wanted us to be able to love each other better. I agreed with her that I did in fact love her as well, (not just have feelings but I loved her) like I said, once our son was born, every loving feeling for her was renewed completely within me, probably why this hurts so much now. And we did not get a divorce in May because SHE did not want it.

Now, for a woman who says she wanted out 4 years ago, but yet passed up on opportunities where I was accepting it, and I must say, I have been extremely forgiving in the past 4 years, looking at it, to an insane level. I actually lost tons of self respect and self confidence with all our issues that we had. I have spent the past 4 years physically dealing with my stress (just about every meal I would eat, I would vomit. thats fun for 4 years off and on, thats for sure...she kept blaming it on gastrointestinal problems, but an Upper GI did not show any issues at all...it was stress, induced by our marriage)
As well as emotionally unable to interact with people properly, I use to be a serious type A personality, much like 99% of special forces guys, and now I am just an accepting kind of guy, I dont stand up for myself half as much as I should, and its painful to see that from the inside and know I could do something about it, but be inable to know what TO do.

SO, she keeps trying to toss a guilt trip onto me for how she's felt for the past 4 years, and sure, she felt bad. So did I, but it was the good times that carried me through the bad times, I do not focus on the bad things, thats just not healthy.

Today I remember the last time I actually really really felt loved by her (this is a very surprising time)
Early 2004, she welcomed me home from some training by getting a limo to pull up to the house about 30minutes after I had gotten home, I was doing my normal routine, come home, get undressed and go wash the "field" off of me, and do some "manscaping" :P to keep myself presentable for her. And I got out of the shower and she had laid some nice clothes out for me (different than the norm) and there was just a note with a blind fold on the bed, "put this on once you're dressed and call for me" - so I did, she lead me outside and took the blindfold off, and there was a stretch towncar with the door open. We went to our favorite restaurant and had reservations all ready, and our favorite meals ordered with some Sangria wine on the table. It truly was an awesome homecoming for just a short 3 weeks in the field. I was very happy, and very appreciative and let her know how impressed I was and how much it was a very nice surprise after running around with 130lbs on my back for 3 weeks straight "patrolling". We got home and had some outstanding love making, really she showed a lot of passion (and I know there is a lot of variances in that word's definition, its on this website in a thread- I feel that passion can be expressed very well by actions during love making-as well as just about anything else yes, the entire night was full of passion honestly but I key on physical action, emotion). And what I liked the most of the entire evening, was we laid there with the lamp on just talking, once we were all done, and she was just tracing my muscles with her fingers while talking to me all huddled up into my arms. I felt like a million bucks and honestly, that was the last time I had ever had that feeling. *now, I know thats an above and beyond situation, not an everyday occurance, but just the whole muscle tracing while huddled under my arm was the icing on the cake, just made me feel so good inside. Yeah the limo and dinner was awesome, lol, Im not discrediting all that stuff, lol. I just really really got turned on emotionally by her doing that.*

That was the last time I felt REAL passion from her. I saw efforts from her here and there, but there was nothing behind it, at least thats what it felt like. And I did not expect her to do the limo thing all the time or anything. Thats unrealistic! But, sadly, almost 5 years ago was the last time I felt "desired" or "appreciated".

BUT, to move on to your questions, kinda sad right now remembering that good time I had with her, but thats all in the past and it can never be. I could never share that sort of intimate thought with her now. I couldnt even bring that up in a conversation with her, it would feel ruined and I could not enjoy that time in my life where I felt invincible and just overall awesome. Such a shame, I hope I can find someone who can share that sort of intimacy.

She had Cancer and you were going to be deployed held it off, she was going to leave because she didn't want to stop you...

I wasnt deploying, it was just we were at the end of my training and it was time to move to my new unit, here in Colorado. SO, no deployment.

You both feared about having a child because of the return of Cancer? And Mother and baby may die?

Yes, very much so, hence why we talked about trying again so much, and why I do not believe her when she says the past 4 years has been completely and totally miserable, we have had our ups and downs, it definitely has been a roller coaster, but not 4 miserable years. (all though, I would have liked certain things to have gone different, honestly)

During all of this , this is when you tried but then kind of went onto the games on the Computer?

for 3 years I would try to re-engage her after her deployment (which she came home from very emotionally distant, wont get that story for years I am sure) and when I would just repeatedly get shut out, over and over, I would feel worthless and lonely, SO, off to the computer room.

And, wasn't there other issues before you two being together as well, that weren't that good for her?

Her father was a cheating, gambling, alcoholic ***hole! And her grandfather was a child molester. SO, yeah, she has issues with men right off the bat, and that has been a topic over the past 8 years together. More so me pledging to her that I would never ever do that to her in our lives together.

I think that it sounds like she has never felt secure in her life, (before you) and can't handle security only fun and that's it... So commitment and her don't go hand in hand therefore marriage.

I can see that.

Yet, i assume she is committed to your child, why 2 babysitters? Is that because she works to make a living as well, bringing additional income into the family that is, or is she not as maternal?

She works full time, and we have 2 babysitters (they are very close friends, live about 4 houses away from each other and help each other out from time to time with scheduling issues) how its going to go now, with her moving 20 miles north of my house, she will have a totally new babysitter for our son, which sucks, he moves, changes babysitters and loses me in his life as well as that of all the little friends he has - at the same time, so much change for such a little guy. Very saddening for me as his father to HAVE to sit and watch that.

She is maternal (from what I can tell) she gets frustrated easily though and that scares me. She slapped him on the wrist when he was 7 months old because he wanted to roll over during a diaper change, I definitely talked to her about that when that happened.... and that 1 event (that sadly I cannot prove) is 1 thing that gives me some nightmares when they are in regards to my son.


*I am not a perfect person by any means, BUT, I am human, and honestly, I embrace my humanity and I do not suppress my feelings / emotions, sometimes its good and sometimes its bad. I tend to withdraw when I feel like I have hit a wall, when I should be climbing over that wall, that is something that I need to work on- I have to stop just accepting that things are what they are and that's that! (if that makes sense)*

SO a conversation I had with a friend today, we are working on " Mind / Body / Soul "

<BODY>
I am now trying a new workout, I am lifting to gain size not just "fitness" I want to go home and be a FILLED out 200lbs instead of a general "in shape" 190lbs. (so I have to gain about 15lbs of muscle, I am sure I have 5lbs of body fat I'll have to trade off from my start point) I have 90 days to do it in, and I am optimistic!
<SPIRIT>
I am reading more and more books, a lot of them about faith in general and Praying at least once a day if not more as the feeling comes across me. I am looking at my life and realizing that I really do not live like a "bad person" SO, thats not bad for me at all.
<MIND>
I am reading a book called "the total money makeover" currently, one of many in my plans, I want to absorb as much knowledge as I can, and I am reaching out to social outings and websites (chat rooms) to just get some more interaction with people and help me realize that I am still an outgoing man, it just got stuffed inside for a while.

SO, I am doing better, but the sense that the past 4 years may have just been a lie and SHE(IF she was lying when we discussed it, SHE cheated him) cheated our son out of the childhood that I wanted so badly for him is definitely something difficult to understand or cope with.

I and a few others see her as headed towards a crash in the upcoming year, she admitted her boyfriend to me last night, but not as to when he debuted.. and then started accusing every girl who's dating someone that is here with me of being unfaithful as well (lashing out at everyone we know) and telling me that I am doing this and that and I am not supporting her like I should (3,000 a month must not be enough . . . guess she will flip when she gets the 800 a month for child support after the court figures it up) and telling me that she is doing nothing wrong (our legal separation starts THIS week, not what she thinks, she thinks its done all ready and she can do whatever she has wanted to do for the past 4 months, sorry, wrong!) and that I should not hate her, and also, that she DESERVES all the furniture in the house because "I made her feel bad" for the past 4 years.

Now, I can sit and analyze her all day, and I have wasted many minutes of my day, more than she deserves of my time, trying to figure her out. And its just been to spotty for 8 years to get a straight line out of her EXCEPT her withdrawals and attempts to remove herself. That is the 1 thing that she has been consistent at, BESIDES- getting a brand new car every year for the past 5 years (yeah, tell me about it- I have been rollin my '04 for 5 years now :P) And animals as well, new dogs / cats many times a year, she just sold our chihuahua that we bought in May for "deposit money" as she put it.

I see the early stages of a self destruction, but who knows, maybe I don't know. Maybe I am over analyzing the situation, I wish I could ask her to seek counseling without her freaking out on me as if I am the only one who needs it, the sad thing is, I have been getting it, through you all, as well as marriage counselors, chaplain, and my pastor, on top of all my friends/family who have reached out to me thankfully.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
that is long winded enough, sorry, I started it pre-workout and finished it after, so tons of time to think of stuff to write ><
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-END wall-0-text-

[thack]

holy cow thats long O.o

[CHANDLERS WISH]

holy cow thats long O.o

LOL.. Your telling me

I read it all though, need a coffeeeee now... lol.

Well firstly, her father was a cheater, and so she has accused you of same.

Her Grandfather was an abuser, and that is your fear with your son, when she smacked his hand... She could as I think Wildchild once said, have a form though of postnatal depression... I mean in addition the baby is young and she works full time, if my baby was young I would work part time, I wouldn't want to miss those special moments...

But, by the by.. It just means that the love you have, and you do you will dote on your son and so he will not be un-loved or feel any non-nurturing from a parent..

Don't get me wrong, I understand on the same accord that a lot of the times Women with young babies, have no choice but to work full time...

I am stating only, if and if only she has postnatal depression as the reason why she works full time.

It honestly, honestly seems again, to me that it was over 4 years ago, and you did try, and she tried but "go away, come back, go away, come back" as I wrote on probably page 1 of this thread, if i recall.

I think what has happened in her life, with her Father/ Grandfather / Cancer then fear again when pregnant it has to take it's toll. It has to and no relationship can sustain if she has not and will not get over the various griefs that have tainted her life.

As I said, it seems that commitment is maybe what she thought would ground her originally but she can't do it.

Well again, you are young and deserve happiness and I am way happy about the books you are reading and the Mind/Body & Sou attitude you are a true soldier, ensuring that you soldier on and don't dwell sure you spill, share, vent, talk, get off your chest but that's also very calming and a necessity.

Keep going down the road you are going down and don't stop.

CW

[WildChild]

I've kind of stayed away from posting on this for a while because the story was unfolding and becoming increasingly complex. The two of you have been through some huge stuff, any one of which would have tested a relationship pretty hard! This is so sad because you saw each other through the loss of a pregnancy, cancer, more than one deployment, so, so much to deal with. I'd venture a guess that your STBX (and you) didn't get enough support after your loss of a child - some people deal with this seemingly easily and others are devistated - although it may not show right away. Jessica Mitford, a British woman living in the US, wrote a book, The American Way of Birth and a second book,The American Way of Death, in these she included an examination of how poorly as a society we handle the loss of a wanted child during pregnancy - it's a heart rending study. Women in their 70s and 80s who had lost a pregnancy could still recall every detail and still suffered from the lack of support. I suspect the father's suffered too but had other ways of coping - like withdrawing into work or something else.

Cancer is another biggie, for both. How much support and counseling did you get for this? You both probably needed it. It isn't unusual for these types of events to pull people who are hurting apart rather than draw them together. We are complex beings and don't always act rationally. You are under huge stresses right now, but try to find it in yourself to have some compassion for her and for yourself. She probably can't really identify why she has responded as she has. She must have loved you to stay through the earlier talk of divorce, I doubt she would have stayed if she didn't feel there was something worth holding on to. Then something changed, it could be a delayed reaction or a cumulative thing. One thing on top of another, on top of another, none of us knows how much we can take until we reach our limit. You each made mistakes and you each did some good things, together you brought into the world a wonderful little person for that you should always be thankful.

Change is never easy, and ending a relationship unwillingly is always hard and painful. Sometimes we never reach an understanding of what happened and why. All you can do is try to find a way to move forward positively. You are young, you are concerned and searching for answers and that's good, it shows your heart and desire to have a positive life. Dealing with this under any circumstances isn't easy being deployed raises it several levels in difficulty but you are strong and reaching out here and other places is a good thing to do. Please continue, I'm sure there are many here who want to offer you all the support and positive hope we can.

[Guest]

I do not focus on the bad things, thats just not healthy

That worked then thack and it's working now, i can appreciate your attitude, keep it up!
I endeavor to look and the cup half full not half m-t.

Still following the post, and your still on the right track - Have a good day

[thack]

Am I?

I don't feel like I am on the right track. Its such a confusing time for me and having my hands tied being here in Iraq is such a frustrating time for me.

All this while knowing that some other man is intimate with the woman that I have loved (no matter the situation / circumstances) for the past 8 years of my life... that is such a messed up feeling, it honestly is. I am trying not to focus on the bad things and I wish I did not have to even deal with this, I wish that everything would have panned out like we talked about many times over the past 8 years.

And I tried to have compassion for her, her confusion was just confusion to me until she started being deceiving and spiteful. She has gone out of her way to be realistically mean and hurtful to me, and those are not my words, those are words from mutual friends of ours who have met her out on the town when she's out with whatever guy it was for the evening.

I want to hate her and I don't at the same time.... She purposefully denied the request of our 2 babysitters to continue to watch him at like half price, and then denied their request of using a good friend of theirs who does babysitting (our 3rd in line for our list of babysitters) up by her new apartment. She is totally removing contact with anyone who knows her actions, anyone who knows that she accused me of everything that she has legitimately done in the past year or more, who knows.

She runs around trying to explain to everyone that she isn't doing anything wrong, that just because I am in Iraq has nothing to do with it, and that there was no cheating involved on her side, only mine... (who's got the other person all ready in their life)

That and the babysitters are afraid for my son, he seems exhausted according to them and extremely clingy. They both agreed that he seems like he's not the focus in her evenings, and he is just pushed off to a babysitter during the weekend so her and her boyfriend can go do whatever it is they do.

All my fears for my son are slowly materializing, and I blame her 100% for them. We talked before we got her pregnant that IF we were to have a baby that we needed to make sure we were dedicated to each other and that any problems that came up we needed to do everything in our power to overcome them and re-connect, she agreed with me and said that we could do it. (hence me thinking that she is lying about the whole "past 4 years has been a lie" bullsh*t.

She just now emailed me- right now, asking if she could take him out of state for Christmas, and I said as of right now, no. I do not approve. I am not comfortable with him being at home with her alone right now, let alone on the road and with her family who all think that I AM the one who has been unfaithful and evil.. Her actions / threats / comments / and just all around conduct has been absolutely no where near honorable, or civil, yet thats what she kept trying to say "we can do this civilly if we ever had to" and her comments AFTER she does something wrong towards me was always "you know that even though we are where we are, that you can trust me" .... as if....

I find myself more angry at her than anything, I cant stand her, I cant stand her actions, I cant stand the way she still tries to make ME feel guilty for all of this. I have never cheated, never done anything near what she is doing now. The sheer amount of disrespect and lack of compassion for me in this makes me just furious.

I don't want to hate her, but at the same time, she is the one making it that way. Every time she talks to me its with just total and complete lack of humanity, and she always thinks that I am childish, or immature - most of the time when she sends me an email I do not want to really deal with at the moment, I respond with:

H*****r,

Have a wonderful day.

T***r


that is it, nothing more, nothing less. Its a nice way of saying "GET LOST" ...(changed word) for a while* so that I can get my thoughts under control.

I really hate 2008... I do.

[WildChild]

You need a separation agreement in place that designates decision making, childcare, travel in and out of the state or country, all that. Until you've got that filed with the state it's really in her hands because she and your son are here and you are there. Talk to your attorney about what can be done to ensure your son's health and well being, maybe some kind of monitoring?

Attorneys can be maddening, they are supposed to know the law but often seem to wait for you to tell them what to do. Got to wonder, why do they think we've hired them?! I'm in a custody battle 10 years after the divorce - the kids are nearly grown, it's costing me thousands.. If I had a better attorney to start with I wouldn't be in this mess! Keep on your attorney, they should know what to do, if they don't you may have to find another.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I do get upset when "people" are able to use "control"...

The change of babysitters or non, is because that way you do not know what is going on...

Before, you were able to speak with them and see how your son really was doing.

That is blatent control, she has ensured that you don't have access to that information anymore...

On the same accord it is also, perhaps "fear" of non - trust of what they may tell you.

Still a form of control in my books though.

Well, surely you have family there, they have the right to see their "nephew" or "grandson".

Perhaps it is time to in-crease their visitations?

CW

[Guest]

What I meant thack was I felt your attitiude is in place to accomplish whatever it might be you need to accomplish, to me that's half the battle man.
Sure I know feelings run high then low. That's natural, is it not?
But we know feelings are like the weather, it changes. I just come thru a hurricane of emotions. That's a knothole i don't want to go thru again!!

I believe our Ladies friends have given you some good advise. These are good women here and really I think they're apt to give you better advise than a man. They naturally know how a woman thinks so they are able to give you some heads up on things that we men just take for granted. You are in the right place man, and I know you know that or you wold not be here, just like you said - Hey I'm into music man, this songl just came to my mind - here it is

Sometimes in our lives we all have pain
We all have sorrow
But if we are wise
We know that there's always tomorrow


Lean on me, when you're not strong
And I'll be your friend
I'll help you carry on
For it won't be long
'Til I'm gonna need
Somebody to lean on


Please swallow your pride
If I have things you need to borrow
For no one can fill those of your needs
That you don't let show
Lean on me, when you're not strong
And I'll be your friend
I'll help you carry on
For it won't be long
'Til I'm gonna need
Somebody to lean on


If there is a load you have to bear
That you can't carry
I'm right up the road
I'll share your load
If you just call me
So just call on me brother, when you need a hand

We all need somebody to lean on
I just might have a problem that you'd understand

We all need somebody to lean on
Lean on me when you're not strong
And I'll be your friend
I'll help you carry on
For it won't be long
Till I'm gonna need
Somebody to lean on


Lean on me...