[pretzel]

This is what I used to tell my hubby when I went through 8-10 years of not wanting to have sex with him. You know why? Because by saying this, I was placing the blame on him, not myself. If it was HIS problem, then I didn't have to change, even though I KNEW deep down, it was entirely my problem.

Finally, I decided to grow up and deal with the situation. Now looking back, well, yeah, of course all he thought about was wanting to have sex, I was never giving him any. It's like telling someone to not think about the pink elephant in the room, well, that's all you end up thinking about. I'm kind of surprised that your counselor hasn't brought up that little nugget.

You are not overreacting, but she needs to change. She needs to do a little self examination, a little self reflection. I KNOW how hard it is to accept the blame in these situations, it's not fun because that means she has to change and when someone has to change, they are thrown out of their element and comfort zone.

Good luck to you.

Well put. I wish my wife would have the same revelation that you had. Reading the thread there were so many similarities to my own life (except as far as I know my wife isn't masturbating) but the situation, actions and reactions all have a far too familiar tone.

[WildChild]

This doesn't sound impossible. Sounds like there is some projecting going on. She figures that if you do anything "nice" you are wanting sex. You figure if she has sex with you its not because she really wants it.

One Hour Orgasm, focuses mostly on non-intercourse sex and arousal. Mostly on pleasuring your partner by using your hands and setting the mood. Why not take a look at it and try a few weeks of just devoting yourself to pleasuring her, with no expectations? Try doing more non-sexual things like cooking together, working on the yard, having a picnic? Just do more that involves interaction, coordination, helping each other out and make it fun. This may help establish more trust and comfort in communication.

[LanaBear]

It was our couples counselor who first recommended a sex therapist. This was in response to my wife saying that I think about and want to have sex, or masturbate, so much that it was affecting other parts of my life.

This is what I used to tell my hubby when I went through 8-10 years of not wanting to have sex with him. You know why? Because by saying this, I was placing the blame on him, not myself. If it was HIS problem, then I didn't have to change, even though I KNEW deep down, it was entirely my problem.

Finally, I decided to grow up and deal with the situation. Now looking back, well, yeah, of course all he thought about was wanting to have sex, I was never giving him any. It's like telling someone to not think about the pink elephant in the room, well, that's all you end up thinking about. I'm kind of surprised that your counselor hasn't brought up that little nugget.

You are not overreacting, but she needs to change. She needs to do a little self examination, a little self reflection. I KNOW how hard it is to accept the blame in these situations, it's not fun because that means she has to change and when someone has to change, they are thrown out of their element and comfort zone.

Good luck to you.

[MiniVanMan]

Outside of the bedroom our relationship is mostly one of walking on eggshells. To use therapist-speak, we are each predicting the reactions of the other, expecting them to be bad or hurtful, and so communication is suffering. We are unhappy because our needs are not being met. I want more sex from a wife who wants to have sex with me. I DO NOT want to be accommodated. I DO NOT want her to just acquiesce to my demands. I want to be desired. She wants a communicative, talkative, emotionally engaging husband, and without that sex just can't happen.

We both live out our days with our needs unmet, discouraged and unhappy.

[WildChild]

Book - One Hour Orgasm

[MiniVanMan]

A brief bit of background about me going to sex therapy.

It was our couples counselor who first recommended a sex therapist. This was in response to my wife saying that I think about and want to have sex, or masturbate, so much that it was affecting other parts of my life. She felt that it was making an already shy and solitary person ever more withdrawn. If I put a fraction of that energy, she said, into social and communicative interaction with others I would be a happier person. This is what she meant when she said that sex is all-consuming for me. Our couples counselor took this as a sign of a problem in our marriage.

Again, she said that she can take five minutes out of her day to masturbate and be done and not give it a second thought, but she said for me sex and masturbation are things I think about and fret about and plan for all the time. I think that's mostly true. And it's mostly true because I'm not getting enough as it is.

Admittedly, sex has been a very very important thing in my life for almost as long as I can remember. I mean, masturbating is one of my earliest memories. I think I was unusual, even for a guy, to be masturbating for years before I could even ejaculate. Must have started around age 7 or so.

Sorry to digress, but I just wanted to explain where she was coming from. I believe sex really is more ingrained in me than it is for most other men.

I don't think she wants me sexless. She wants me to engage in her emotionally/intimately enough to make her want to have sex with me, and I'm not meeting that need. And me being "preoccupied" with sex is at the expense of our emotional intimacy as a couple.

But I'm still wrestling what she told me before, that she:

Needs intimacy from husband => sex not required, but is "nice to have"
Needs sex => husband not required, but is "nice to have"

I mean jeez, where is: Needs sex => husband required (or at least preferred)?

[Hopeless Dork]

She doesn't understand what the big deal about her masturbating is... yet she had you go to sex therapy because of YOUR masturbation. She didn't want to have sex with you, she didn't want you do have sex with yourself... so much so that she wanted you in therapy for it... Basically she wanted you sexless, while she continued to masturbate and be as sexual as she wanted to be.

Selfish much? Controlling much? Contradictive and confusing much? Good grief you have your hands full --- good luck with the counseling, I do mean that sincerely, not in a saracastic way.

A lot of women here come upset about their significant others masturbation, but its associated with them wanting more sex and their man being too tired for sex and not too tired for porn/masturbation. I've yet to hear a women complain of her mans masturbation while also being vocal about not wanting to have sex with them.

Something has to give. If you don't want to have sex with your partner, don't want them to masturbate, you are saying they can't be sexual at all. Thats horrid. But to do that while all the time being sexual... its... atrocious.

She talks about voicing your wants and needs... sounds like you have been doing that all along and that she's ignored them. Unless there is a huge chunk you're not revealing it sounds like she is the one that may be in a lot more need of a sex therapist.

I agree with stressed that her masturbating twice a week wouldn't keep her from sex with you. Unlike men, women generally don't have a refractory period and are able to perform sex as often as they organically want it and with a bottle of lube and desire to please their partner... even when they don't organically want it.

She feels physical pleasure from your sex... but no emotional connection. Yet she feels like there are other ways to be emotionally connected to you outside sex. So..... what is preventing her from doing just that. Sex with you for pleasure, emotional connection in other ways.

To be honest it sounds like she has no idea what she wants, hopefully therapy can help her sort that out. You sound like a patient and loving man. I hope she gets the help she needs , that you as a couple get the help you need and survive this.

How is your relationship outside of sex? Are you guys a happy couple outside of the bedroom?

[MiniVanMan]

It really is nice to be back. I can always count on you all for clarity and unfettered opinion.

One thing that has come up several times in and out of counseling is that she's never felt that she could keep up with my sex drive. Several times a week for her was just unthinkable. But now, with this masturbation revelation (isn't that a rock band?), it seems to me that that was all BS. If she can cork it off twice a week alone, then what's to keep her from involving me? It's all so hurtful right now.

Just tonight we had a long animated and sometimes heated discussion. So much so that for both of us there were tears, and at times so much angst that we were talking in those squeaky breathless voices people use when they're desperate and frustrated. One thing that I took away from it was how flippant she was about her masturbating. She kept telling me that it's not big deal. It's just something she does, and it doesn't mean anything. So why am I freaking out over this?

She also made it absolutely clear that for our relationship to work we MUST voice our needs and wants without having to be asked. She said we have to see each other's side of things, and make adjustments for the other. I'm not describing this very well, but the main point was her renewed commitment to our marriage. She said "We HAVE to make this work!" as the tears rolled down her cheek.

I was quite moved by her conviction, although I'm still not convinced staying together is the best thing for both of us.

[stressed]

I think the key phrase here is: "She admits that when we do have sex she enjoys it very much, but the reason we hardly ever do it is that she rarely feels emotionally connected to me."

This tells me that she enjoys the physical aspect of it but she's not connected with you emotionally and I think that's serious and not an excuse. She might be seeing you as a friend more than a husband and she's used to excluding you from sexual activities by masturbating. She might have started masturbating at some point when she started losing this connection with you.

It's not that she doesn't enjoy it, is that she doesn't want it. I don't think masturbating twice a week is the reason why she doesn't want sex, it's not common with women as they don't need to "save it" for the sex like men do. I think it's more likely that she masturbates twice a week because she needs a release and that's far as it goes for her. She obviously doesn't want to include you in her fantasies and probably doesn't see you as a sexual partner.

Stay with the counseling and see what happens. She might open up more about it and you can reach the root of the problem.

[Hopeless Dork]

You have every right to feel hurt. I would be devistated. I understand how deceived you must feel right now. Especially since she put you in sex therapy for masturbating... when she doesn't even want sex with you. She wants you to be asexual because she is. Thats unfair on its own. But now it turns out even SHE isn't as asexual as she wants to be.

Hopefully in therapy you can find out what she means by there is no emotional connection during your sex that she manages to get from you in other ways.