[MiniVanMan]

To be completely honest, I find it difficult if not impossible to say "Eh, 20 years of what I consider abuse? No big deal. It had no effect on me. Let's forget all that and be madly in love again."

I honestly don't know if there's any amount of counseling that could get me there. I'd really like to know if anyone as been in my position and found a way. Please, if you have, talk to me. Tell me that it can be done. Tell me HOW it can be done.

I'm listening with all my heart.

[MiniVanMan]

I don't want to pick on you, but at this point it seems like she's really trying to resolve the issue by telling you exactly what her needs are so she can be a woman who meets your needs. But you're too angry and resentful and wanting to place blame/punish that you're not seeing it.

Yes, you're right. It's been so bad for so long that I am angry, resentful, hurt, confused, I just want to freaking scream. Scream and jump up and down and throw a fit. Something I've never done as an adult. It's that bad.

[MiniVanMan]

If the two of you don't love one another and don't have a connection....and sounds like you two are both too stubborn and angry/hurt/resentful at this point to meet in the middle and give in to working it out...is there a reason to stay married? Just asking

Right before spring break we agreed that we should separate. She contacted a lawyer and I was in the process of finding one. A few days later she was, in her own words, "practically begging" me to stay together and give it another shot. I gave in because I was too weak to say no.

[MiniVanMan]

**edit**

[sourpuss]

OK, from my perspective this is what I see:

She says that communication and emotional connection is what she needs in the relationship to feel sexually motivated to be physical with you.

She's fully communicated that to you.

You see sex as the most important factor in the relationship and feel resentful that your needs aren't being met.

She's saying that the fact that sex is what is most important to you, is what is making her more withdrawn.

You're saying that the fact that she's withdrawn (yet still has a sex drive and chooses to masturbate) is what is making you so angry.

She's communicated that she would like to have sex several times a weeks, but needs the emotional connection with you to do it.


Do I have that right?

I don't want to pick on you, but at this point it seems like she's really trying to resolve the issue by telling you exactly what her needs are so she can be a woman who meets your needs. But you're too angry and resentful and wanting to place blame/punish that you're not seeing it.

I could be wrong, but from what I've read here, that's what I gather.

[sourpuss]

Just a side note: where the heck do you get the idea that most women fake it?

Ugh! You saw that too. I wasn't going to say anything.

[sourpuss]

That's how it worked when we fell in love. Not long after that she stopped wanting sex and I became sullen and withdrawn. I've been unhappy ever since.

She told me just the other day that she doesn't have problem having sex multiple times a week with me if she feels we're connected emotionally, but I simply can not feel that connection with her anymore. Of course, a large part of that is her unwillingness to have sex with me. The other part is I don't want her to "not have a problem" having sex. I want her to WANT to have sex. Big difference.

You have your answer right there. I think she's being completely honest with that one. And I think you're so angry that you're being stubborn at this point because you want her to be the one to change.

I think that is exactly what is going on. She LIVES for communication with others. That is what makes her happy. She's told me this many times. Not true for me. I don't thrive on communication.

If you know this about her, and you truly want to work it out then you need to give to this a little. Marriage is about partnerships, both have to indulge in the other's requirements that make them feel needed and loved.
Communicate with her. Ask her random questions to get her to open up. 'If you could live anywhere in the world for 6 months, where would you go?" "if you won 10 million dollars next week, what would you do with it?" Stuff like that, 'get to know you' type questions. It keeps the relationship and connection to your partner fresh.

I don't diddle myself all day at the expense of our relationship. I'm not sure why she says I spend too much time on it.

I'm willing to bet that there are times when she is craving an emotional connection and you just aren't on the same page. So this is something tangible that she can point to that you are spending time doing rather than spending the time with her. Not saying it's right that she's using it, just trying to figure out what her angle might be there.

Bingo. And I don't feel the connection either. I can't even remember how long it's been since I've felt like I loved her.

If the two of you don't love one another and don't have a connection....and sounds like you two are both too stubborn and angry/hurt/resentful at this point to meet in the middle and give in to working it out...is there a reason to stay married? Just asking

[WildChild]

Just a side note: where the heck do you get the idea that most women fake it?

[CHANDLERS WISH]

So

Emotional
Communication
Connection

= Intimacy....

Your shy, she's assertive, different personalities total.

You are happy with just "sex" but there's no connection/communication of wants, desires, feeling it, loving each other, sexually.

And, it appears that the reason why you have none of this is because you are in-deed two different people.... You've stated you don't love her.. there is no emotional connection what so ever.

I think what she is trying to do, is "give it a shot"... sending you to both a sex therapist to learn the art of making love and that it's not just sex and the connection and emotions that are attached are highly important, as well as councelling so you can get in touch with communication, and connection with two people.

Your call, because if you don't believe that you have this full stop, you won't have it for the next partner either...

So, I'd put sex aside for the time being, and concentrate on learning partnership so that you can have a happy life, with or without her.

CW

[MiniVanMan]

Yet, she loves the word "intimacy" and in that, that is a touching, without wanting sex. It's laughing and holding hands. It's going out having a few drinks, coming home and falling into each other's arms without sex...

If all these things were there... constantly... and then you "made love" because of her, looking her in the eyes, seeing her, loving, her I think she would be fine...

That's how it worked when we fell in love. Not long after that she stopped wanting sex and I became sullen and withdrawn. I've been unhappy ever since.

She told me just the other day that she doesn't have problem having sex multiple times a week with me if she feels we're connected emotionally, but I simply can not feel that connection with her anymore. Of course, a large part of that is her unwillingness to have sex with me. The other part is I don't want her to "not have a problem" having sex. I want her to WANT to have sex. Big difference.

I'm also having a hard time believing that anyway. She's told me that not long after we fell in love the "novelty wore off" and she pretty much stopped wanting sex. I'd just be waiting for that to happen again. Why wouldn't it?

Isn't the emotional drive for sex with women going to be crushed by a partner that seems disinterested in an emotional connection or communication with them?

I think that is exactly what is going on. She LIVES for communication with others. That is what makes her happy. She's told me this many times. Not true for me. I don't thrive on communication.

I am at the point where if I'm talking with her I'm just expecting to be told what to do, or what not to do, or how stupid I am (those are not her words). I'm gun shy about even having a conversation with her because of her extremely assertive personality. We've been over this in counseling, but I'm still gun shy.

Do you know that you can give her an orgasm?

No. Sometimes she acts like it, and I feel her vaginal muscles contract a certain way. So maybe she is, and maybe she's faking it like most women do. If she's unhappy about this particular point she needs to tell me. There's no way I can know for sure. I'd LOVE to give her orgasms. Even on my "off" days I'd be thrilled, THRILLED to bring her to orgasm EVERY DAY. Manually or orally, whatever. I adore that. I've told her I love doing it for her and that I'd do it any time she wanted. Didn't seem to make a difference. She's never asked for it.

Do you just sit at home all day playing with yourself rather than spending time with her and being her husband?

I don't diddle myself all day at the expense of our relationship. I'm not sure why she says I spend too much time on it.

Things that she would love to share, "together"... So is she maybe holding out on sex, because that seems to be the only thing for years that he is willing to participate in, where as she needs more, of that connection...

I think this is exactly what she is saying. I don't know if she's holding out on sex, but I know, because she has told me, that she needs more of a connection. I admit I'm having trouble with that as I said above.

Do you only masturbate because she does not want sex, or would you masturbate anyway? If you would masturbate anyway, then you should not be bothered by her masturbation, whether she wants sex or not, as you cannot ask for dual standards.

Up until the last year or so it was because she did not want sex. Last October I completely gave up on our sex life. I could no longer deal with the constant rejection. We went 6 months without sex, and I chose to masturbate whenever I felt like it. In that regard you're right, I shouldn't be holding her to a different standard. But what about the previous 19 years? All I wanted was sex with her, but she's been masturbating and not having sex with me. That's not a holding her to a double standard.

As it has been mentioned above, if she feels no connection with you as a husband, a man, a friend, and knows you masturbate weekly, then she won't want to have sex with you.

Bingo. And I don't feel the connection either. I can't even remember how long it's been since I've felt like I loved her.