[ItsASecret]

you would think it would already be done and approved by the FDA. So where's the hold up?

The thing that is holding everything up is what everyone simply states in other ways "science has a lot to learn". Not everything is known, not everything is found as soon as a grad student picks up a thesis topic, and not everything is a success.

Lots of birth control pills are made with different hormones and combinations thereof, so it's unfair to try to blame everything on ONE hormone.

Very true, which is also why it is difficult to blame it on the pill in the first place. Plenty of other things in the body with the actual hormones and not synthetic can be to blame.

I'm one of those women basically chained to a pack of pills because of gynecological problems that aren't worth enough cash money to the men in white lab coats to try to actually fix. They think that throwing hormones at my body will make it all better ... when it actually just covers up and slows down the problems.

That is really unfortunate that your stuck on one certain pack, I do not know if that happens often in the population as a whole. But if the doc says they found something that can be a physiological solution then I would imagine there is some science behind it to back it up. The thing with putting stuff into the body is that there will be side effects no matter how much you do not want it to happen. And just because something happens doesn't mean that everything is wrong and nothing is actually of benefit. If anything does not work for an individual then they have every right to go to their physician and ask to be taken off of it.

It bothers me more and more when I find out that I have 2-3 different problems with female-specific parts of my body but they can all be treated by birth control. Certainly, all those parts were created by estrogen in the first place, but it just seems like a cop-out, and like it was being made impossible for me to try to conceive.

Birth control is used for more than preventing pregnancy so yes there can be sound reason for a doctor to put you on it for whatever gynecological condition you have. Its not a cop-out if there is the scientific evidence to back it up.

[Guest]

thanks Wildchild, Little and CW. Very good points to note. Like I said, even when you have an open relationship with your g/f you can still appreciate other womens issues.
You're all very open and honest. I'm sure that I would like you if I knew you.
xxx to all of you.

[RogerW]

I am a white male in my early 50s. During my "dating " years 15-49, I was rejected for a countless number of reasons that I won't go into here. Guys like us (the "too nice guys") sort of realized with the advent of the Internet that we can "get-off" without the complications of a real relationship. It's a win-win for us. I cannot relate to actually touching, or being touched by, another real human person. So I am happy being a "friend" to women and a buddy to my male friends. I leave the 90% of women who want to be with the 10% of men alone. It seems to make everyone happy. As for any woman who thinks otherwise, maybe paying attention to guys like me in our prime years may have made a difference (although not realistic). But really, if your interested in those of us guys over 40, I suggest you look for alternatives. I for one, can't imagine anything else than having sex with a Jessica Beil look-a-like over the Internet She doesn't cost me anything to date, she cannot break my heart, she cannot cheat on me and she cannot take 3/4 of what I earned over my lifetime.
I simply get off and close the window now. My only regret is that I've heard that most women cannot enjoy masturbation over getting near one of us "undesirables". Believe me, try it first. We are really not worth it. And I really hate being looked as being so creepy that I disgust you. If you've noticed, we really are not trying to hit on you just because we talk to you. I gtg, I have a porn site to visit.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Roger what an interesting read.

So you don't ever feel lonley because you date but you won't commit.. You go out with your friends so you still have the boy time, you masterbate, over and done with, no hard work, no one to please, when you want and you absolutely love life, it's fantastic the best it's ever been.

Seriously! Don't live life on your own...

maybe paying attention to guys like me in our prime years may have made a difference (although not realistic). But really, if your interested in those of us guys over 40, I suggest you look for alternatives.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. In our "prime" years we are serious.. We are looking for someone mature, not a fool, not someone to wine and dine us but be our equal.. We are not nieve and we know exactly what we are looking for.

Some of what you describe I call "baggage".. When I went back out into the dating world at 43, there were so many guys that, held so much contempt agains women due to suposidly being robbed. Yet they did not sit back and ask why the marriage really failed and who they married?

If you married someone for instance who had decency then she more than likely would have been alot fairer on the financial part if alternatively she tried to throw the book at you and then you have to ask why women get this way that they want it all, "if" they were not gold diggers, what went wrong?

Lastly, make no mistake.. We women 'DO' want a partner that has no baggage, learnt from their mistakes, still believes in love and trust and is equal ..and I would hope you would / do as well.

I left mine with nothing, my choice.

I am engaged now and probably a tad older than you.

Don't beat yourself up and be so hard on yourself, we are not all gold diggers... Each person is different.

[ItsASecret]

If you've noticed, we really are not trying to hit on you just because we talk to you.

Context of talking is important. Walking up to a girl in a bar is not the opportune time for a guy to depict himself as an innocent "I just want to talk to you" type guy. No, the first thing that girl will be thinking, because the grand majority of the time it is true thanks to other guys, is that he is looking for sex. The nice guy needs to be the nice guy at the coffee shop, in the mall, the grocery store or anyplace innocent and not in any way shape or form sexual. If anything opens with "your dress looks good" again, it will be about image and hence the first thing she will be thinking is "great here we go again". If it is a hello how are you then it is different, any alluding to how she looks how she moves anything in the slightest way about sexuality or the slightest hint of sexual interest she will pick up on it and it is game over if she wants no part of that type of guy at first meeting. There are plenty of smooth talking nice guys that know how to get the job done, they are genuine and a woman can pick up on that genuine behavior.

I for one, can't imagine anything else than having sex with a Jessica Beil look-a-like over the Internet She doesn't cost me anything to date, she cannot break my heart, she cannot cheat on me and she cannot take 3/4 of what I earned over my lifetime.

I can certainly see the point a guy would make about the fantasy world of porn. I mean it is easier if he chooses to avoid real women. The porn provides better looking surgically perfected bodies that you will not see in real life, it provides the fantasy that all women from being in a movie theater to walking down the street are ready to get down and extremely dirty with a 10 person orgy and that again not at all present in real life, and it provides the fantasy of being with someone you would never have a chance with like Jessica Beil look-a-like (or Brad Pit for women like myself) lol. I can completely understand why a man, if he does choose to avoid a relationship, would take porn over real women. That fantasy of perfection and zero obligation would certainly be a temptation.

[SaharaJim]

A while back we had a woman poster remarking that she had "more intense" orgasms by masturbating than with her partner. She seemed to "prefer" masturbation over intercourse. I note that she wasn't subjected to the same type of condemnation that seems to be happening here. What I posted there and I will say again here is the OP is comparing Apples with Oranges. Sex with a loving partner is the "Banquet" of sex and masturbation is "fast food". Yes "fast food" is convienant, you can live on it if you "have to", and sometimes it is really good. BUT it really isn't the dining experience that the Banquet provides. Personally I love my Banquets; but that doesn't mean I won't grab a burger, taco or chili-cheese dog on a hurried afternoon. I just don't kill my appetite with "Junkfood" when I know the Banquet is "waiting" at home.

[caster]

A while back we had a woman poster remarking that she had "more intense" orgasms by masturbating than with her partner. She seemed to "prefer" masturbation over intercourse. I note that she wasn't subjected to the same type of condemnation that seems to be happening here

Jim, You're not the first one to notice the double standard that's common here.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Oh pftttt, I don't think the majority of women here disagree totally with men masturbating, well I hope not, in any event. I see nothing at all wrong with it.

I am sure that I have read countless of threads, where women have said, as long as it isn't effecting "their" sex life, a point Jim states in his post as well.

I think that is the point there.. The thread Title states " prefer masturbation to sex" that suggests that they either don't like intimacy, don't like women and have been burnt before, non trust and sex/intimacy leads to some form of a relationship, or they like the idea of a quick fix with out alot of work more so, than giving and receiving...

Sex is supposed to be intimate, a bond between two people as well as "at that moment" situations.. So if a man and that's the topic here so no double standards , prefers masturbation over sex, give me another reason why if not the above ?

[Hopeless Dork]

I am a white male in my early 50s. During my "dating " years 15-49, I was rejected for a countless number of reasons that I won't go into here. Guys like us (the "too nice guys") sort of realized with the advent of the Internet that we can "get-off" without the complications of a real relationship. It's a win-win for us. I cannot relate to actually touching, or being touched by, another real human person. So I am happy being a "friend" to women and a buddy to my male friends. I leave the 90% of women who want to be with the 10% of men alone. It seems to make everyone happy. As for any woman who thinks otherwise, maybe paying attention to guys like me in our prime years may have made a difference (although not realistic). But really, if your interested in those of us guys over 40, I suggest you look for alternatives. I for one, can't imagine anything else than having sex with a Jessica Beil look-a-like over the Internet She doesn't cost me anything to date, she cannot break my heart, she cannot cheat on me and she cannot take 3/4 of what I earned over my lifetime.
I simply get off and close the window now. My only regret is that I've heard that most women cannot enjoy masturbation over getting near one of us "undesirables". Believe me, try it first. We are really not worth it. And I really hate being looked as being so creepy that I disgust you. If you've noticed, we really are not trying to hit on you just because we talk to you. I gtg, I have a porn site to visit.

Some of the nice guys that get picked over and left out have a habit of focusing their attention on unnatainable women. They complain about never being picked first at dodgeball but won't dare dream of focusing attention on the 7 or 8 in the room whenever there is a 10 in there as well.

I've never got that about men. You will have 10 fighting over the hottest girl, the one that just wants your money, the one that makes it clear you not her type... while there are 9 other girls that are almost as pretty, 10 times as sweet and actually interested in them.

So I have little pity for the 'nice guy' curse, because whenever i see it in action its usually the dillusional guy curse... same goes for women that have been 'treated bad' in every relationship, yet refuse to date any guy that doesn't make it clear up front he's a womanizer dirt bag.

Why be with a real woman, that is only average in looks, that will take care of you when you are sick, that will cuddle you after a long hard day and rub your shoulders and be supportive when you can look at a full on jessica biel look-a-like on a monitor? Different strokes for different folks.

I can put a brad pit poster over my bed and fantasize about him night and day, but I'd much rather be with a real man, that looks nothing like brad pitt, that will hold me in his arms and kiss my head when I need it most.

Not passing judgement on you, its all personal choices. I just think you're barking up the wrong tree assuming that women having a rough go being second to porn were the same ones rejecting the nice guy in their prime. Those chicks have probably long since found their sucker and are living the real houswives of orange county lifestyle. Since the ones the 'nice guy' syndrome guys fall for are the unnatainable b words lol. Just my nickel.

[Hopeless Dork]

I just don't kill my appetite with "Junkfood" when I know the Banquet is "waiting" at home.

If you'll notice, the main women complaining about porn and masturbation are also stating that their needs aren't being met. The man is leaving the fridge empty and picking up fast food on the way home from work every night and glaring blankly when the woman says she's hungry. He already ate, he doesn't understand what the fuss is all about that the fridge is empty lol.

So take note, its not a double standard -- its the very point your making that I quoted that most women complaining are complaining about... its that their 'banquet' goes to waste day in, day out because their man is being a dollar menunaire.

Women that are happy with their sex life, are not going to be upset their guy masturbates. Its the women that aren't getting any, that will feel slighted, hurt, crushed and cheated when he is heavily focused on porn and masturbation.