[Count Zero]

You're in the same place I was!

You know how some people say that just when you think you've got it bad, you meet someone who is worse off? Well, those of you with no-sex issues, meet me.

I'm reading through this thread seeing people mentioning having sex only a couple of times a week or just a few times a month. Well, that would almost infinitely multiply my number. I can count the average number of times I have sex with my wife, PER YEAR, using just three fingers.

We've never had a fantastic sex life. She was always a bit timid and I ALWAYS had to initiate. Then, as others have mentioned, we had our first child and the drought began. At that point, we were still probably having sex about 10 times a year (it's quite easy to keep track when it's less than once a month). Upon the arrival of our second child, the gates were shut. I face rejection about 95% of the times I attempt to initiate. It's really gotten to the point where it's a burden to try anymore. Once she gets going, she's fine, but getting her going is such a steep hill to climb (and the excuses for rejection continue to mount) that the payoff is almost not even worth it anymore.

But it's about more than just sex. I love my wife and I miss the intimacy we once shared. I really don't feel like a married couple anymore. We're just roommates now.

(for the record, both in our mid-thirties, married for ten years, two kids, both work full-time)

You sound exactly the same as me 18 months ago, except that my wife didn't work full time, counselling helped us indirectly, basically it reached the point where she had to realise that the lack of sex was a dealbreaker for me, before that she didn't see it as a problem.

Good luck.

[stressed]

Does counseling really help in these situations? Does it help the partner with the lower sex drive change? Even if you've discussed everything, in every way, with your partner is it possible that a counselor would make the partner realize how serious this is? Even when they already know it's a problem? I need some feedback

[takaris7]

You sound exactly the same as me 18 months ago, except that my wife didn't work full time, counselling helped us indirectly, basically it reached the point where she had to realise that the lack of sex was a dealbreaker for me, before that she didn't see it as a problem.

Good luck.

Exactly what happened to me. This lack of sex lasted for years. She just didn't see a problem with it. Thing is I became so emotionally detached from her I didn't want "pity" sex even if she offered it.

[WildChild]

Exactly what happened to me. This lack of sex lasted for years. She just didn't see a problem with it. Thing is I became so emotionally detached from her I didn't want "pity" sex even if she offered it.

Why did/do you stay?

[Allie602]

You sound exactly the same as me 18 months ago, except that my wife didn't work full time, counselling helped us indirectly, basically it reached the point where she had to realise that the lack of sex was a dealbreaker for me, before that she didn't see it as a problem.

Good luck.

I always wonder what a woman says when she changes. Is it because she is fearful of losing the man and does it just to keep him. Does a man enjoy sex from a woman who is only doing it because she doe not want him to go and does not enjoy it?

Does she suddenly start to enjoy sex. Does she realize the emotional toll it takes on her husband and then change and is more loving? How does it work? Another thing I wonder but never hear discussed is the quality of the sex. Men talk about quantity but never quality. They say their wives enjoy sex but how do they really know? How do you know if the sex on offer is just bad and she gets frustrated?


The OP wife sounds like a class A b****, I sure she would not talk to a stranger like that and she talks to her husband in that way. How can he love a person who is so mean and hateful to him??? The thing that bothers me is that he never called her on it. Why didn't he say "how dare you speak to me like that? Never speak to me like that ever". I think I know why he didn't call her on it, because on some level he thinks that he is wrong to want to have sex with her. That's a big problem when a man is made to feel like he is an animal or a perv because he needs to feel some love.

Why don't you men out there start a movement. Fashioned after the feminist movement - the goal is to remove the portrayal of male sexuality as dirty, perverted, and ugly. It's none of these for good men but that's not how it is portrayed in pop culture. No one talks about the meaning of sex for a man in a loving relationship. No one talks about the emotional need that sex is for a good man in love, or about the emotional devastation of rejection. I didn't know until I started reading these forums and books. I had absolutely no idea and I think many woman don't know. I read a post from a man who wanted to get pills to turn off his sex drive because his wife would not have sex with him! I nearly cried - a human being wants to cut off part of himself, I was upset for a while I still think of it and feel sad. I don't think men understand it themselves so, they don't always say the what they feel. Of course they are not supposed to have any emotions associated with sex except the desire to to get some.

Is it true is that the way you fell guys. If so, don't you think it is time to find your voice. Send out your message - yes, for men sex is complicated but there are emotions and connections that develop when in a loving relationship. Sex becomes intertwined with that feeling of love and the desire becomes more than just physical all the time to being emotional some of the time. Does that sound right? It's not wimpy to say it, that would be stupid pop culture talking. Women would love men with more understanding if they understood.

How the blazes did I get on that tangent. OH in for a penny, in for a pound.

[Allie602]

double post sorry

[Colorado]

Allie,

You hear me use the word "TRUST" in several posts.
You know why? Because some things just aren't mainstream in the "Mens Locker Room" so to speak (or Mans World, if you'll have it). You don't relate to each other the sensual part of your relationship, you don't say "it was so romantic", you dont say "we cuddled all night afterwards", etc, etc, etc. It's just not what men do or say. Somehow it's considered something that woman relate to and how they FEEL. Men are mostly brought up to bury their "feelings", and bury them deep! "Don't cry - Real men don't cry!", etc.

Now the trust part comes when you have someone that you are so close to and TRUST, that you can start to let some of those secrets out with... TRUSTING that they will never let another guys know that you ever said, did, wanted whatever it was/is.
I know it sounds like a macho man thing - and it is! That whole "you need to get in touch with your feminine side" is like us hearing "you have to cut your own pecker off"! Just not going to happen.

That again is why I say that a relationship will not flourish, and be totally unconditional, give 100% of yourself to the other, do things that would make someone else say "you're weird" lol without TRUST. Truth be told, we don't want to hear that kind of stuff coming from another guy - It's just not right in our tiny little minds :0)

TRUST is everything and to get everything out of a relationship it has to be... It's just not shared amongst the guys.

[Count Zero]

Does counselling help?

Does counseling really help in these situations?
It did only because you get to really talk without being cut off or dismissed. My wife was very surprised that it was such a big deal even though I'd been saying it for YEARS, she heard it as that big a deal for me from a professional councillor and believed it then.

Does it help the partner with the lower sex drive change?
I suppose if they see just what a big deal it is, they will make an effort if they care about you.

Even if you've discussed everything, in every way, with your partner is it possible that a counselor would make the partner realize how serious this is? Even when they already know it's a problem? I need some feedback
That's just it, my wife didn't get it, not really, she said she did at the time, but she didn't. Once she got that I was ready to devoice her, she has made a real effort and our relationship is getting back to how it was before children

[Count Zero]

Counselling

Why did/do you stay?

I asked for and then demanded marriage counselling, in the controlled setting, we could have better communication about how we were feeling. I was angry, rejected, lonely, frustrated, resentful and disappointed. She was feeling like I only wanted one thing and felt resentful too. The problem is, when you don't get any sex, it IS all you think about.

She didn't get that I was ready to walk out until that point.

[Count Zero]

I always wonder what a woman says when she changes. Is it because she is fearful of losing the man and does it just to keep him.

Maybe at first, then you have to work on rebuilding the trust/like for each other.

Does a man enjoy sex from a woman who is only doing it because she doe not want him to go and does not enjoy it?

No. She loves sex when she's doing it, it's getting there that was hard. My wife orgasms 2-4 times when we have sex.

Does she suddenly start to enjoy sex. Does she realize the emotional toll it takes on her husband and then change and is more loving?

Yes, she is!

How does it work? Another thing I wonder but never hear discussed is the quality of the sex. Men talk about quantity but never quality.

At that point it's like pizza, even bad sex is better than none. But seriously, that wasn't a problem, it's that her sex drive is so much lower, she was happy and satisfied with sex once a month.

They say their wives enjoy sex but how do they really know?

Oh you can tell, if you've ever has a girl fake it, and had the real thing, you can tell.

How do you know if the sex on offer is just bad and she gets frustrated?

Not what happened, at least for us, she came lots and had a great time, it's just that then she was fine for weeks, and I could have gone again in twenty minutes!


The OP wife sounds like a class A b****, I sure she would not talk to a stranger like that and she talks to her husband in that way. How can he love a person who is so mean and hateful to him??? The thing that bothers me is that he never called her on it. Why didn't he say "how dare you speak to me like that? Never speak to me like that ever".

Probably too scared to do so, men worry about breakups too.

I think I know why he didn't call her on it, because on some level he thinks that he is wrong to want to have sex with her. That's a big problem when a man is made to feel like he is an animal or a perv because he needs to feel some love.

Why don't you men out there start a movement. Fashioned after the feminist movement - the goal is to remove the portrayal of male sexuality as dirty, perverted, and ugly. It's none of these for good men but that's not how it is portrayed in pop culture. No one talks about the meaning of sex for a man in a loving relationship. No one talks about the emotional need that sex is for a good man in love, or about the emotional devastation of rejection. I didn't know until I started reading these forums and books. I had absolutely no idea and I think many woman don't know. I read a post from a man who wanted to get pills to turn off his sex drive because his wife would not have sex with him! I nearly cried - a human being wants to cut off part of himself, I was upset for a while I still think of it and feel sad. I don't think men understand it themselves so, they don't always say the what they feel. Of course they are not supposed to have any emotions associated with sex except the desire to to get some.

We men are not into organising this sort of thing, I wouldn't be comfortable talking about this stuff face to face, let alone proclaiming it to the world!

Is it true is that the way you fell guys. If so, don't you think it is time to find your voice. Send out your message - yes, for men sex is complicated but there are emotions and connections that develop when in a loving relationship. Sex becomes intertwined with that feeling of love and the desire becomes more than just physical all the time to being emotional some of the time. Does that sound right?

Yes, it's totally core to our feelings of a loving relationship.

It's not wimpy to say it, that would be stupid pop culture talking. Women would love men with more understanding if they understood.

It's vitally important, I don't think it's complicated, we need it to have a happy relationship, done.

How the blazes did I get on that tangent. OH in for a penny, in for a pound.

It's nice to have some real thought in a post about this stuff, and not a just an off hand "you must be fat/dirty/smelly/lazy" comment.