[DreamP346]

Maybe write a letter. Since he won't talk, maybe you can write him a long, thought out letter. He can't avoid reading it. Be very clear that your marriage is in jeopardy and if he continues to refuse to sit down and talk, it will be a signal that he is not interested in saving the marriage.

[rcoreyus]

"Flirting" means very different things to different people. I have not problem at all with what Kmonte85 describes, and I would hope that no one else would. Being friendly is great. Yes, it can be misinterpreted by overly hopeful men, but as long as the situation is made clear if they try to go too far, I think its fine.

Serious flirting where someone is actually looking for a hookup is a different issue, but that doesn't seem to be at all what is going on here.

Some people are just naturally friendly and flirtatious - that's fine. It is important though that they have partners who don't mind.

[Stillness]

That doesn't sound like flirting to me.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

K. You've been with him for years, he knows your persona better than anyone else does. He can't all of a sudden dislike your ways with people, if it never bothered him before. I just get this feeling still that someone has said something and he is of the opinion he is going to lose you and so, has toughened up so hard, that he is treating you like shirt...

You have to find out what it is, he has to disclose what it is that is eating at him so that you can prove it to be wrong and he can finally note it.

[rcoreyus]

The problem is that you can't prove you haven't done something....

[CHANDLERS WISH]

And, it's a guessing game until he tells her as well.

[atskitty2]

Hello! I'm new to the forums and after reading your thread, feel inclined to post. It's been a few days, so I'm wondering if there hasn't already been a big change.
I would encourage you to go to counseling even without him. 2 reasons I suggest it:
1. A good counselor may give you new perspectives and tools for communicating in a new way with him and
2. If hubby sees that your going to marital counseling without him, it may help him see how serious you are, and that your really trying to fight for your marriage.

I don't think this is a problem that cannot be overcome. The trick is finding that key to open him up and get him talking and get to the bottom of what his problem is. It sounds like you had a pretty good and healthy relationship prior to this "thing".

Sometimes I think there has to be a catalyst for change. I think there has to be some moment when he realizes that there's a serious problem that requires action or he will lose you.
Now maybe he's changed to the point that he won't want to work it out, either. You won't know until that time.

I'm eager to hear more from you. I wish you well

[jns]

Thanks, jns, for the clarification. I was always under the impression that even those possessions we obtained prior to marriage were subject to 50/50.

That would really be a marriage penalty and would discourage quite a few marriages. If people want it spelled out more clearly they use a prenuptial agreement. If what you thought was true, gold diggers would simply marry and divorce a lot more. Instead you have "black widows", who marry then kill their spouse to gain control.

[jns]

KM, I went over a lot of this thread again, but not all, so I may have missed something.

You did not change significantly before and after marriage. Besides things were fine until he got his new job. I think the new job is affecting him. He is away continuously for long stretches. Then he is with you continuously for long stretches. Before, because his schedule was varied, he never questioned if you were flirting for actual attention from other guys (my belief is that flirting in a lighthearted way can be simply a form of communication). After all, he was never away at a specific time and day that could be used for a meeting. Because of the uncertainty, plans couldn't be made without high risk. So his insecurities weren't heightened. Now he doesn't know. It's like being afraid of the dark. Mostly irrational unless true proof comes along.

Also or possibly instead of, he could be picking up bad information from his new firehouse coworkers. Their cynical outlook from their own relationships and their ways of dealing with them may be coming home to roost with you. Further, firemen in general are quite macho and I would suspect some of that may be coming home to play with your relationship (which seems more balanced). Is his station all men? Why now and not before? He is somewhat trapped in the situation and maybe it is somewhat like the Stockholm Syndrome of hostages. Before he was never fully inside the situation. All jobs can be this way to some degree if you commit to staying with them and if they are required for you to continue your lifestyle.

These are possible reasons why he changed. As you can see, they are him problems that he will have to fix. You can encourage him and lead him, but he will have to fix them. Talk with him and keep on hitting how he was, how he is now and how he changed when he got the new job. Guys generally do understand logic, but they can be hard-headed about taking the logical analysis of someone else. If you keep hitting him with it, he will think about it during an introspective moment when he is in his cave (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus - John Gray).

I think he needs counseling.

[KMonte85]

Well, we still haven't really been able to fully sit down and TALK. I tried Friday night, but was shut down. I could just draw a hard line and keep talking, but I feel it's pointless because he's not listening. He slept on the couch Friday, and then refused to join me for my nephew's birthday party on Saturday.

I met up with him Saturday night at a local town festival (he's actually the chief of the volunteer FD there), and he was working at the truck pulls. We met up afterwards and it was like everything was fine again. It seems as long as I don't try to acknowledge there is a problem, he's ok. But on the same account, we're losing a bit of our intimacy. So we can have fun and party together... that's fine, and it's great that we have mutual friends and a vibrant social life.

But the 1 on 1, the intimacy between two people.. THAT is suffering. And he's trying to pretend like it isn't there. Maintaining the status quo is not going to fix us.

I think I'm going to go to counseling myself. First, because I'm wondering if a licensed counselor can help me help him. Second, because I want him to see that I AM serious about this. And third, because I want to work through my growing resentment, and figure out of this is something I (we) can hopefully fix... or if I (we) need to move on. Because I can't live my life this way. I don't demand perfection, but I certainly demand fulfillment and partnership, neither of which I have been getting.

We only get one life to live (depending on one's beliefs) and I won't live mine in a perpetual state of "meh"