[stressed]

After a lot - a lot of talking, I finally got her to understand that I have a biological imperative to ejaculate 3-4 times per week and had even been told I should by my urologist (white lie). I convinced her that it was not a substitute for being with her, but with schedules and different sex drives; I was satisfied if we could have sex with each other once or twice per week and would not push to have sex just so I could get off.

My advice? Stop pushing the sex; don't even bring it up. Don't tell her you masturbate, don't try to make her feel guilty if she does. Just be there for her, make her feel good about herself, but be a little aloof and she will come to you with more sex than you can dream of.

I see your point, but lying to your wife and saying that a urologist suggested you to ejaculate 3-4 times a week, wanting to justify your alone-time, was not fair played. Would you like such a lie to be told to you by her? This only gives me the impression of "paint the world in beautiful colours to blind your SO about the real situation and not be bothered into improving the real world". But that's just my view.


But I do agree with your advice, the OP should not consider getting involved into sex discussions. There is still a long way to go and I am not yet convinced he really 'wants' to go this way, after claiming he hadn't loved his wife for years. No matter how angry a person is, he doesn't say such a thing unless he even slightly means it.

[Hopeless Dork]

I don't buy the "normal progression of a relationship" stuff. That is an old hat excuse for people not being really into sex, not recognizing how important it is and not making an effort to keep it fresh.
Personally, provided you threw in a some romance, I would love a relationship with a man who has the attitude you describe, But maybe I'm an oddball.

I don't buy it either. Sex just gets more and more exciting with me and my boyfriend as time goes by. Progression means progress... the natural progression should mean things get better not worse.

But it all comes down to compatability. Not necessarily matching sex drives either, but as long as both parties in a couple are genuinly interested in making their partner happy...they will meet in the middle and compromise on each others needs.

To me, sex is an outlet to express the love I feel for my guy, its a means for which he can make me feel special and beautiful, its a fun activity where it can be as different and as exciting as our imaginations let it be, its physical pleasure that is equalled by nothing else... there is no more reason for couples to let the sex fade out as there are reasons for them stop eating, stop sleeping, etc... Its part of life. Not the only part... but one of the GOOD parts for sure

[WildChild]

I don't buy the "normal progression of a relationship" stuff. That is an old hat excuse for people not being really into sex, not recognizing how important it is and not making an effort to keep it fresh.
Personally, provided you threw in a some romance, I would love a relationship with a man who has the attitude you describe, But maybe I'm an oddball.

[MiniVanMan]

...but he still hasn't talked about how they started to lose intimacy in the beginning.

I will tell you how this whole thing got started, but I know I will come off as both bitter and naive. (bottom line for the impatient: she lost interest, and I did not)

Within a few months after the beginning of our relationship, my wife started to turn me down. Our sex life transitioned from several times a week to twice a month. I can't recall how long the transition took, but I do remember the feeling of rejection I had, over and over and over again. I remember at first she would just laugh playfully at my advances and turn away. Often she would suggest we delay it until later, and when we'd go to bed and I would snuggle up to her to get things going, she would turn away and fall asleep. She would sometimes ask me "You're horny all the time, aren't you?", and I'd tell her yes. Eventually she just started rejecting me outright. As a result, I became sullen and withdrawn.

According to three couples therapists, two personal therapists, two of my friends' wives, and my wife herself, this is a normal progression of a relationship. They used phrases such as "the novelty wore off" and "it was no longer new and exciting". Apparently this is something I should have seen coming, and I should have been alright with it. I got the feeling that all these people were fighting the urge to say "Duh! What did you expect?".

For me, sex can never be anything but new and exciting. I've never had bad sex. I've never been bored with sex. All the sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and feelings are thrilling each and every time. The connection I have with my partner is at it's peak when we're having sex. No matter how many times I explore her body, I want to explore it again. To this day I still feel this way.

That is how it was for me, and at the very earliest part of our relationship it seemed to be true for her too. She was delighted with sex everyday. She'd play with my penis, using funny voices and wiggling it to and fro. She'd walk up to me unannounced, slide her hand down my pants, and instantly send me to heaven. We made a home video of ourselves having sex (which I still break out now and then, it's a huge turn on). I could sit down next to her and do no more than touch her thigh and she'd be ready for penetration. It was bliss, and unfortunately I thought it would last.

These feelings never dissipated for me. It was thrilling and intimate with every encounter. Life couldn't get any better. But, as I was later told by so many men and women, sex gets old. The thrill goes away. The novelty wears off.

News to me.

So even though I was wanting it every day just like I had been in the beginning, and she was aware of my desire, she could only bring herself to make love every other week or so (and now for the last 13 years it's been about 10 times a year). I'm sure at first it was because the novelty had worn off, and later me being sullen and withdrawn didn't help. But I was clueless! At that point nobody told me to expect my sex life to plummet. My wife sure couldn't (or wouldn't) explain it. I was, and still am, heartbroken at the lack of sex, which for me was also lack of intimacy.

To bring it full circle back to the topic of this thread, the reason I'm so disturbed by my wife's frequent masturbation is that clearly the novelty of masturbation doesn't wear off for her. But sex with her husband? Eh. The excitement is long gone. And according to everyone I've talked to about it, this is how relationships normally play out. I shouldn't expect anything different.

[A Dying Breed]

ADB: it seems that your message changed between post #4 and post #78. What brought you to shift your position? I'm not attacking either position.

From the Q and A from Sourpuss and some of what HD said. When I first read this, I didnt really know.

I still dont think his wife should have sent him to sex therapy.


But the more I read, the more he tries to blame his wife. A few times now, somebody has pointed out a problem and said "yeah, I do that, but-" and doesnt seem to even think about wanting to change it.

The first description seemed to blame it all on her. For him, the issue is sex. But for her it is not. But he wants her to give in and start having sex again. For her, it must not be as intimate. And he wants her to forget or change all these things, but he still hasn't talked about how they started to lose intimacy in the beginning. Now the main problems are that his wife doesn't want to have sex, and sent him to sex therapy (which I still disagree with).

I dunno, just from the tone and writing it doesn't seem like he wants to change. He wasnts her to change, but so far I havent seen him talk about making sacrifices or changing an aspect.

The wife values intimacy, but it seems he values sex above intimacy.


I guess it's just really hard to explain my opinion though, because I still felt I haven't.

I dont know, everything I have said could be wrong, I'm only going off of a few pages on the internet. But to me it seems that he is identifying his wife as the entire problem.

But in marriage, even if one person started the problem, they BOTH have to solve it. I don't think MiniVanMan gets that. But again, I could easily be wrong.

[emptypea2001]

So as a man, married for 30 years, here's my take. For women, sex with their mate is an emotional event. For me, it was always about the orgasm, the ejaculation relief. If there was a connection as a result - fine, but not necessary. In that sense, having sex was great masturbation because of all the stimulation leading up to the climax made the climax more and more intense.

For my wife, though, the climax, while important, is dependant on the overall connection she is feeling for hours leading up to having sex and throughout the sexual encounter. The technical apects of her orgasm are secondary.

While most posts here don't agree, I do understand what your wife means when she talks about her masturbation - 'it's just something she does to get off and then forgets about it'. There is a definite double standard here with her upset about your obsession with having sex and planning your masturbation but this is very common. I had been married about four years before I discovered that my wife masturbated (and believe me it was a lot more than twice a week - probably is for your wife as well). It secretly turned me on that she did this and didn't tell me, so I didn't tell her I knew for quite a few years; actually after she walked in on me masturbating and getting very upset with me. After a lot - a lot of talking, I finally got her to understand that I have a biological imperative to ejaculate 3-4 times per week and had even been told I should by my urologist (white lie). I convinced her that it was not a substitute for being with her, but with schedules and different sex drives; I was satisfied if we could have sex with each other once or twice per week and would not push to have sex just so I could get off.

I also, finally, got her to admit that she masturbates also - I just kept it totally normal with no jealousy; that I understood that it is something separate from how each of feels about being together.

My advice? Stop pushing the sex; don't even bring it up. Don't tell her you masturbate, don't try to make her feel guilty if she does. Just be there for her, make her feel good about herself, but be a little aloof and she will come to you with more sex than you can dream of.

[jns]

ADB: it seems that your message changed between post #4 and post #78. What brought you to shift your position? I'm not attacking either position.

[A Dying Breed]

So far from what I'm reading, and not trying to pick on you. Also remember I'm a guy. But it seems alot of these problems are stemming from sex.

You keep saying you have all these problems. ex.) "yeah I know I'm doing that, it's a problem and I'm doing it".

You're admitting all these faults and problems of how you're thinking about the relationship, but you aren't even trying to fix them. You're just announcing them, but don't really care whether or not YOU fix your own problems.

By no means is your wife perfect or completely in the right by this. But from everything you've said, 95% of what you want is things she needs to work on. Relationships are supposed to be 50/50, and you're acting like you're already at your 50 percent mark and she needs to do it too. You're not even close. As long as you aren't trying to let go or fix some of the problems you have, why should she?

Also, you said sex is the strongest way for you to connect with her. But she doesn't feel that way at all. And you aren't even making an effort or trying to find all these other ways of intimacy. For woman, sex is a RESULT of an emotional connection, not vice versa.

You're upset because you want her to want to have sex with you, even though she's hurt and feeling a gap between your emotional connections. So far you've been blaming all these different things on her.

And by no means is she perfect, and she definitely is not fulfilling her 50% yet. She is constituting 50% of this problem. But with that said, SO ARE YOU. If you are really trying your best to fulfill your half and fulfill her needs again, I can almost guarantee she will try to fill up her half. But you want her to do all the work.

You want her to be the bigger person and start fixing her 50% of the relationship. You want to be the victim and for her to make it up to you. But you both have EXACTLY the same amount of blame. Yet you are not willing to blame yourself. And when you are, you make excuses of how she did something first and your detachment was a response.


I know I sound like an a-hole. But GET OVER YOURSELF. You have the EXACT same amount of blame in this. Be the bigger person and the man in the relationship and do your part.

If you fulfill your 50% of the relationship, and she continues to not change anything, then you are the victim. Right now you are just part of the problem and you're purposely making the problem worse to spite her and to make her apologize first.

Why does she need to apologize first? Why cant you be the bigger person, the leader in the relationship, and do your best to fix it?

It sounds like you're making excuses to leave. You aren't really trying to fix this relationship. You just want her to be wrong so you can leave and feel like you had no part in this.


I am sorry, from one man to another. I really am sorry. But you need to MAN UP and accept your half of the responsibility. And you need to fix it. Or else you aren't gonna be happy, even if you marry someone else.

Relationships take work and effort from both parties. Even if ONE person of the two causes a problem, they both have to fix it.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

The best bet there is to ask yourself "why" she didn't tell you and truthfully, open your thought pattern in that regard.

It may not be secrecy persay, rather, embarrased? Or pot calling the kettle black? So how do I explain it, when I only do it a couple of times, but he likes to masterbate all the time?

CW

[MiniVanMan]

Y'know, the more I think about this whole masturbation thing, the more I realize that it was the secrecy that upsets me as much as anything. It was a part of her life for so long that I didn't know about. We don't keep secrets from each other. We've never lied to one another. But this just feels dishonest to me.

What else do I not know about her and what she does when we're not together?

Am I being irrational?