[stressed]

For what is worth, I have been in your place before. I thought my SO did not want sex at all, he even said he just didn't even think of sex. He wondered (or so he said) if he was asexual and I wondered if he was gay. Yet he masturbated behind my back. When I found out I felt betrayed, lied to, very angry, just like you d now. We would only have sex once a month or so, I thought he had absolutely no sex drive, yet he masturbated to porn as soon as I was out the door. I thought he didn't care about our sex life, that he didn't find me attractive, that it would never change.

We tried to improve things for a year, he stopped with porn (after me asking him to do so, to see if it will make him want sex more) and I thought for several months that neither of us masturbated, to help improve our sex life. Until a few months ago when he told me he masturbated and he thought I knew (because "it's normal"). I was disappointed once again, as I had been frequently suggesting (and in a very nice way for that matter) that sex is still not frequent enough and it's more or less repetitive (not in those words, of course). I felt let down, I didn't know what to think, I thought our sex life mattered more than just a release a couple of times a week.

But I put that aside, because I thought that the relationship mattered more than whether either or both partners masturbate. I talked a lot with him, I wrote him letters, I tried to make him open up about sex. I tried to make him understand how I felt, what I wanted, that I also wanted him to be happy. He has low self confidence, he's been avoiding sex out of fear, some times out of laziness, but this is slowly changing now because we have talked a lot about what we both expect and feel.

I'm not saying it's a similar situation to yours, but I'm only trying to say that I understand how hurt you're feeling right now, and it has been many years for you, many more than it has been for me, but it is worth trying to find the right approach. If you equally love each other and want to stay married, you HAVE to find this approach and follow it. You have to understand the reasons behind the actions before you can judge them. You have to put the pain aside and work on the relationship as if it's day one. It is easier said than done, but it is worth the effort.

[stressed]

... because, the "just sex" you're referring to, could mean "passionate sex" to her and to have that you need attraction, emotions, wanting "just sex" with the other. At least at this stage, today. She might have meant that the "using each other for sex" was like "some times I had sex with you when I wasn't in the mood for it, other times you had sex with me because I wanted it". What she said can refer to a hundred different occasions/feelings/emotions. You can't move on and deal with the problem if you keep bringing up things she said in the past, it's not good for either of you.

She can't have "just sex" with you now, she can't have any kind of sex with you whatsoever. There are things she misses in your relationship, above it all being emotional connection. Don't compare today with yesterday, it will mess up your head. Don't rush her into having sex, don't think about sex with her, don't think about her masturbation (you masturbate too, so just let it go), because every moment you do you miss the forest for the tree.

Please, try to listen to us for a second here, we do want to help you and many of us understand your sexual frustration, but you have to give it MONTHS and a lot of talk before you even start considering asking for sex. You have to start from day 1, from dating, flirting, showing how much you care for her, for the woman she is, show that you want to make her happy. Not for one week or two, but for much longer than that. It is worth the effort if you still love her.

[sourpuss]

You've got to let that go man. Really, you have to just take a deep breath and let it all go.
The past is the past, and an unhappy one at that. Your fixation on sex and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole is what got the two of you to this place to begin with.

[MiniVanMan]

Okay, I get that. But what I don't get is that back in the day she used to say "sometimes I use you for sex, sometimes you use me for sex, and that's okay". So if it was just sex that was still fine with her.

And now that I know she's having her own private sexual experiences a couple times a week, I know that she still needs "just sex". So why can't we have "just sex" together like we used to?

I mean, in addition to lovemaking.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I think if you go back, you'll note a few of us explained that "sex" is just that, "sex" but intimacy is different.

Intimacy, is exactly what you did. You shared, something with her, you showed that you have time for her, for things that she is interested in therefore, your interested.

You showed that you cared. That you have feelings for her, and that you "wanted" to cook her breakfast..

What you didn't do was then "ask" for sex, and I assume that, that is the case, although you state "she's been more attentive to me physically, the light has come on".

No, the light has come on for you You've realised that she is a "person" and your "wife" and there is more to a relationship than just sex... There is intimacy and in that love and in that giving for no reason what so ever.

CW

[MiniVanMan]

These are exactly the kinds of things that make women fall in love and stay in love. All too often the guy does that in the beginning to try to impress or win the girl over. Then as soon as he's comfortable and knows he has her, all that little stuff that was so important, stops. That's where the desire for sex stops with most women. Does that make sense? I'd be willing to bet that you were more like that in the beginning and that's probably why there was more sex in the beginning. Women can really start to resent that stuff when it wears off and the 'honeymoon' period is over. We feel duped.

Well I find that really interesting. I felt duped as soon as the honeymoon period was over and she never wanted sex. It seemed like a bait-and-switch tactic. She's got me, now she can lay off the sex. This is the first time I've heard anything like this from the woman's perspective. I didn't know what could have triggered her drop in sex drive, until now. Clueless. You can just call me clueless now.

And that's likely how it all started. I always believed it was just some kind of physiological change that occurred with all women once they've hooked their man. But clearly we were both responding to the decline in having our needs met, and it was probably happening simultaneously.

Then Beautiful Disaster said:

I get what you're saying. But in a sense you're also saying that she can't win here....because even if she starts giving you more bedroom attention you're going to think she's doing it just to make you happy. And maybe for a while that's why she is doing it......but isn't that improvement? Baby steps. I'm just saying, if she's sitting there going "he only helped me with this stuff cause he wants sex...he doesn't really want to" and you're saying "shes only having sex with me to make me happy, she doesn't really want to" then you're being 100% counterproductive.

You're right. Absolutely. We need to stop second-guessing each other and just take it for what it is.

Last night we had a long heart-to-heart talk. Although I still feel hurt and betrayed, we're opening up to each other now. We agreed that seeing our couples therapist will be necessary to help me get over all this and move on.

[Ashlee T.]

For me, having my wife make that kind of effort in the bedroom on the surface sounds great. In reality, the whole time I’ll know she’s just doing it to make me happy, not that she’s doing it because she wants to, and I find that sort of forced, I guess. Like I’m not attractive.

If your wife had this same mentality then she could take any efforts you're making right now (making breakfast, helping with volunteer stuff) as just efforts to woo her into the sack. "Is he doing these things because he loves me and really wants to make me happy? OR is he doing these things to try to get me to sleep with him more?".

When i figured out that every time my boyfriend would give me a back rub he'd initiate sex, I stopped wanting the backrubs. Then when he'd ask me "how's your neck today? Want me to rub your neck??" I'd say "no thanks". He couldn't seperate the two. And soon enough, I couldn't either, every time he'd offer I knew "he wants sex". But didn't I deserve to just get a good back rub now and then without feeling like there were alterior motives?

I get what you're saying. But in a sense you're also saying that she can't win here....because even if she starts giving you more bedroom attention you're going to think she's doing it just to make you happy. And maybe for a while that's why she is doing it......but isn't that improvement? Baby steps. I'm just saying, if she's sitting there going "he only helped me with this stuff cause he wants sex...he doesn't really want to" and you're saying "shes only having sex with me to make me happy, she doesn't really want to" then you're being 100% counterproductive.

[sourpuss]

So the emotional connection is not there, but I've been working on that in the last few days specifically in response to the advice you all have given me. I've been more engaged in our conversations, making her feel that I’m genuinely interested in what we’re talking about. I offered to make her breakfast Sunday morning, which I've never done before, and she seemed to really appreciate that. Just last night out of the blue I offered to help with some of her volunteer work she's been doing, and I spent much of the evening on it. Guess what? She's been more attentive to me physically. Ha! The lights come on!

These are exactly the kinds of things that make women fall in love and stay in love. All too often the guy does that in the beginning to try to impress or win the girl over. Then as soon as he's comfortable and knows he has her, all that little stuff that was so important, stops. That's where the desire for sex stops with most women. Does that make sense? I'd be willing to bet that you were more like that in the beginning and that's probably why there was more sex in the beginning. Women can really start to resent that stuff when it wears off and the 'honeymoon' period is over. We feel duped.

I'm not trying to accuse you or anything. Just a theory. But, if you continue to be attentive and involved, there will be more intimacy in the relationship.

[sourpuss]

.....

[Otown_girl]

Take her on a date. Take her out for lunch and buy her flowers. Start from scratch. Talk about how you met and how you fell in love. It could get the sparks back!