[Ashlee T.]

Did you mean "what does she want from YOU in this relationship?"

Nope...I mean what do you expect from yourself? There have to be things you can improve upon in the relationship. There have to be things you could work on that might help to bond an emotional connection and reignite the spark. Try not to focus on specifics you want from HER....focus on the big picture for you both.

[sourpuss]

Go get the book '5 simple steps to take your marriage from good to great'
It goes over all the communication problems that you and your wife are having. It's really informative in explaining how men and women think, feel and react differently. Seriously, go get it today. I think you'd really benefit from it.

[StillLearnin]

My wife and I read the book Hot Monogamy and did the exercises (she abandoned it about half way through though, which irritates me because she knew how important completing the exercises were to me, but that's a different thread). You two did the Love Languages, which is a good start too. Hot Monogamy addresses problems like you described where your wife won't let you get a word in. It's all about understanding each other, and how each are wired. The problem is that both parties have to want to work it out, otherwise you'll be talking (or trying to talk about it) until the cows come home. You need to understand the deeper intimate connection she needs, and she needs to understand the physical touch and love that you need. Both have to be willing to meet in the middle. If she knows that machine gun fire conversation literally gives you a headache, and cares, she would understand to not communicate so much at a time. If you know that she needs to feel more emotionally connected to you to have sex, then you would do whatever it takes to help her feel that way.

But, I've gone through similar situation as you are experiencing, and know that you can only do so much (my wife's love language is actions, where she likes love to be expressed to her by doing things to help her and the family, which I have always done, but it wasn't getting me anywhere because she didn't understand [well, actually ignored, is the right word] my love language needs, which is similar to yours with the physical touch and words of appreciation). Eventually you get to where you say enough is enough and you can't do anymore. I don't think you are there yet though because you are just starting this process, and she has expressed to you that she doesn't feel emotionally connected. (My wife would say that she has been 100% happy and satisfied with the love and care I was showing her over the past 25 years) When you get to the point where she can express that she is emotionally satisfied, and things don't change, then it's "enough is enough" time for you.

But you're going to have to give it time to resolve the deeper issues. Be patient. If the marriage is worth saving it's worth the patience.

[jns]

It is not conversation unless at least two people are engaged and taking turns. Taking turns in conversation is a big problem in modern society where many people think they are God's gift to the world and others should be in awe of what they are saying. Their speeches are like filibusters. She needs to give you gaps, you have to put sound bites in those gaps.

Also, instead of "right" "I see" or "yep", try "I love you", "I want to hug you", "I want to kiss you" or "I want to lick you all over". Of course, you should mean it if you use any particular one, but say something that plays to your affectionate words typing.

[MiniVanMan]

Almost everything you said you wanted above, were things you wanted HER to do.
...I think most of us truly want these things in a relationship. And we should have them, so long as we're meeting their needs in return. So what do you want from YOU in this relationship?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. Did you mean "what does she want from YOU in this relationship?"

Some time ago we took the love languages survey, and I came out bilingual. Half words of affection and half physical touch. Split exactly right down the middle. She came out overwhelmingly quality time, and she explained that to her that mostly means verbal communication. Well guess what? I SUCK at verbal communication. I'm very self-conscious of my inability to quickly express my thought. It takes so long for me to form a sentence that she is constantly finishing my sentences for me, and it pushes me away. Just LET ME FINISH MY FREAKING SENTENCE! It won't take long! JEEZ! Thank goodness our marriage counselor has called her on it a couple of times. It just doesn't seem to sink in, though.

So what she wants, mostly, is engaging conversation. Hers is rapid fire, machine gun speech. It's hard to get a word in edgewise. Meanwhile I'm trying to process all that she's said, and honestly, it overwhelms me. One time we went on a walk for an hour and literally, I'm not making this up, she talked nonstop the whole time, with nothing more than a "right" or "I see" or "yep" from me, because she wouldn't shut up! And it gave me a headache. That's not a figure of speech here. My head hurt. When we got home I had go into a quiet room and decompress.

So yeah, verbal communication is very difficult for me, and she doesn't make it any easier.

[cuff]

I think you're showing a great deal of commitment to her and the relationship by going to a counselor. A lot of men wouldn't even do that to save their marriage or relationship. It's difficult for a lot of men to give up that control. I hope all that doesn't go unnoticed by her and she understands that.

As I said before I DON'T want her to have sex with me just because I want it. I want her to want me. I want her passion I hope as much as she wants mine. But it seems to me that she'll never be sexually attracted to me. If she's emotionally connected, she'll have sex because only then can she tolerate it. That, to me, is a deal breaker. "not minding" sex or "being okay with it" is a turn off. I want to be the object of her desire, just like I was in the beginning. Why can't two people who love each other still lust for each other?

For your wife to want to have sex, she needs to have that emotional connection with you. If you give your wife that, she's not going to toss you a bone and give in and have pity sex with you just because you do that. Hopefully she'll be on the path to building that connection and want to have sex and it will be sincere.

Women are more complicated than men. I think the level of some of their feelings they have go deeper than most men. That's why it's so important for an all around connection with a man for sex. Not the initial passion and getting to know you stage, but the stage of spending your life with someone. Being together for 20 years, your wife needs to have an all around bond to keep her sex-drive for you going. For a man after 20 years, we can still look at her boobs or butt and want sex. I don't think it's that simple or black and white for most women after many years.

[Ashlee T.]

I'm so SO glad to read what you've posted since I last posted. For the first time, I truly get the sense that you are fully recognizing in your HEART that somethings missing and it's not the lack of sex causing that. The lack of sex is just a side effect. There are probably many "side effects" in your relationship, each of which bother you. But it's like going to the doc after experiencing all those things, and finding out that you have an infection causing all those problems. I feel like that's where you are now, and you were NOT there in the beginning of your posts. For that, I congratulate you.

I'm always seeking to understand the opposite sex, and let me tell ya, it's as hard on this end as it is on yours. By nature we're just SO different, enough that sometimes its appauling that we're even supposed to be together.

You want WAY more than sex. There is nothing wrong with that. But remember, you must be a part of this. You cannot expect to sit back, have her change and everything transform around you. Almost everything you said you wanted above, were things you wanted HER to do.

When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss.

I WANT THESE THINGS TOO!! I think most of us truly want these things in a relationship. And we should have them, so long as we're meeting their needs in return. So what do you want from YOU in this relationship?

[sourpuss]

Thank you, WildChild. For some reason the last few months I've been more emotional than I've ever been in my life, and your post nearly brought me to tears. Thank you.

To address most of the other posts in this thread: This isn't ALL about sex. The original post concerned sex but that is not all I want from my wife. I want to be able to gaze into her eyes and feel the warmth in my heart. I want to look around a crowded room and know that she's the only woman I want to be with. When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss. I want to want to be with her.

None of that is happening right now.

You need to say exactly that, out loud, in front of her at your next counseling session.

[WildChild]

Believe me there are quite a few of us who have or are dealing with this too. It's frustrating and painful. When you once had "it" and things changed so that now you don't, I think it's more painful because you know what could be.

It seems we get so much baggage that we just can't see the possibliites any more. It sounds like your wife wants this too but doesn't see you as a man she can have it with? In the past, before this went south, how much foreplay was there? Were you doing the things you say you want now? Like coming up behind her and nuzzling her neck, giving her hugs and kisses just in passing?

Let me tell you what often happens is that a man will come home, his wife is happy to see him gives him a kiss and he just stands there. She tries to talk to him and his response is, "yeah, whatever". He parks himself in front of the TV or computer and shuts down, if she walks through his line of vision to the TV he gets grumpy, she suggests they go someplace together and there is always some reason not to or if he does go he makes it very apparent this isn't where he wants to be. Then having rejected her over and over (he may not realise it but that it how it feels to her) he starts getting attentive, why? He wants sex, she is feeling un; unheard, unseen, unsupported and uncared about. What she is not feeling is desired, loved or valued. Add to that, that the attentiveness is often 5 mins (if that) of very low level foreplay and then he wants to get down to business, she just isn't there. This spirals downward into creating a woman who loses interest and two hurt/angry people.

This isn't ALL about sex. The original post concerned sex but that is not all I want from my wife. I want to be able to gaze into her eyes and feel the warmth in my heart. I want to look around a crowded room and know that she's the only woman I want to be with. When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss. I want to want to be with her.

What you are describing above is what I think of as living foreplay, keeping it juicy. Little displays of affection, caring and desire throughout the day. Keeping the kettle on simmer all the time. The challenge is that if you (as a couple) haven't done this all along or fell out of doing it, your SO may be wary and suspicious of it starting up. It may take some time and consistancy to for them to get into it. That will happen faster, at least with a woman, if you start consistantly giving loving/playful attention without trying to move it into sex. I'm not saying this will always or absolutely work but it's the best possiblity. If a woman feels that the only time she gets any affection or positive caring from a man is when he wants sex she will start to feel used. The fact that the sex makes the man feel more connected will not cut any cake with her. Not then.

It takes time to rebuild the trust and feelings of underlying affection. I can feel your pain, I've been dealing with it from the other side. When you love someone and want to be with them not just some random person of complimentary sex, it's very painful. But the bottom line is You are the only person you can change. what they do is up to you. You can give them something different to respond to, break the pattern and know it may take time.

[MiniVanMan]

Thank you, WildChild. For some reason the last few months I've been more emotional than I've ever been in my life, and your post nearly brought me to tears. Thank you.

To address most of the other posts in this thread: This isn't ALL about sex. The original post concerned sex but that is not all I want from my wife. I want to be able to gaze into her eyes and feel the warmth in my heart. I want to look around a crowded room and know that she's the only woman I want to be with. When we meet up after being apart for most of the day, I want her to smile, greet me with a kiss, and ask me how my day went. I want her to brush up against me when we pass. I want to come home and be happy she's there to greet me. I want her to come up behind me, nuzzle my neck, and make cooing noises. I want a passionate kiss. I want to want to be with her.

None of that is happening right now.