[WildChild]

It starts with forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn't mean it was OK, doesn't mean that you forget it. It means you let go of it. Consider that if the emotional baggage you carry had a physical presence it would be like hauling around a couple of cinder blocks or some bags of rocks all the time. It wears you out, keeps you from doing and being all that you could, gets in your way, keeps you from having much fun, it just drags you down.

When you forgive, you let go of it. Just drop it and let it lay there or hand it back to person you think gave it to you. That's the real kicker, you haul it around with you, beat your self with it, reinflict the pain on yourself because the person who you need to forgive may not even be there anymore, they may not remember what it is that you've got and have been agonizing over. I've written about my experience with forgiving, I think you might find it in my blogs. Most people don't really understand what forgiving is about. It's about freeing yourself from a burden you have taken on. Forgiving yourself can also be very healing.

And No, forgiving won't solve everything. But just think how better you might feel and be able to deal things without that extra burden.

I don't anyone here expects you should give up sex, or really thinks that it is unimportant. It is very important. What we do know as women, and as well some our men here understand very well, if you want to bring back the intimacy with your wife, you may need to put off re-establishing sex for a while and focus on building an intimate connection in other ways. For a really turned on woman, everything can be part of foreplay. The book I suggested to you explains some ways of doing that for both of you. You two didn't get to this point overnight and you won't fix it over night.

There is nothing wrong or unusual in you finding a great feeling of connection through sex. Therapist and author John Gray, talks about this in his Mars and Venus books. He says that in general women need to feel loved in order to really feel desirable and want sex, while for most men sex brings out feelings of love. If both come to understand this and work with it everything is great but few seem to.

[MiniVanMan]

First I want to thank all of you for your honesty and tough love. Sometimes I don't want to hear what you're telling me because it's so spot on. It's difficult to be told I'm in the wrong. I know I'm holding a grudge. I feel that if I give in, I'll be saying that all the hurt that's accumulated over the years is now gone. That it's okay, I'm over it. But I'm not.

I suppose I'm hung up on the notion (or fact, in my mind) that she stopped satisfying my needs first and in response I stopped satisfying hers. I know, it's juvenile. "She started it!" It's a problem with me, I admit it.

As I said before I DON'T want her to have sex with me just because I want it. I want her to want me. I want her passion I hope as much as she wants mine. But it seems to me that she'll never be sexually attracted to me. If she's emotionally connected, she'll have sex because only then can she tolerate it. That, to me, is a deal breaker. "not minding" sex or "being okay with it" is a turn off. I want to be the object of her desire, just like I was in the beginning. Why can't two people who love each other still lust for each other?

Telling me that sex is too high a priority, that what's important to me shouldn't be important, is unacceptable. I could turn the tables and say that putting such a hight priority on emotional intimacy is getting in the way of our relationship. She shouldn't make it such a high priority. In truth, we each have our own priorities and each is just as valid. And sex is NOT optional in marriage. Putting sex aside isn't going to solve anything. If it's going to work we need to compromise, and that means keeping both priorities on the table.

So I'll ask you, why is it that you WANT to have sex with someone you have no connection with?

But I DO feel a connection when we're being physical. It's so strong. I don't know why. That's just the way I am. The feeling isn't as strong when we're not physical.

Can you do it?
Can you let go of it?
You can if you decide that benefits will outweigh holding on to it.
Give it a try?

Agreed. That is the crux of it, isn't it? Can I let it go and give it a try? Right now, I can't answer that. I just can't. Therapy is supposed to help me figure that out.

[MiniVanMan]

About faking it, I find faking it to please me appalling. It is so dishonest. If you don't want to have sex then don't have sex. It's better than lying to me, which is what faking ultimately is. It also teaches me that what I'm doing is what gets you off. Do you really want that?

[Ashlee T.]

Oh, and yeah, some women fake it. Most of us probably have at some point in our lives. Some women fake it just to please you and make you feel like you're doing good. Some women fake it so it will be over. But the key in most of those situations is LACK of emotional connection. As general a statement as it is to say women fake it, men often place more priority on sex in their relationship than actual love and emotional connection. Sounds sort of unfair when you make a blanket statement like that huh?

And ultimately, many of us women get to the point in our lives where IF we have faked it in the past, we're tired of having to fake it and will no longer do that just to appease our partner. So it's sort of like "ya know what? If you're not willing to give me what I need in this relationship.....I'm not going to make so much effort giving you what you need". She needs love, friendship, intimacy (that does not equal sex), connection, passion. If you, as her husband, stopped focusing on satisfying HER needs, then doesn't it seem a bit selfish to expect her to satisfy YOUR needs??

[Ashlee T.]

Bingo. And I don't feel the connection either. I can't even remember how long it's been since I've felt like I loved her.

Here's a big part of your problem. In one breath you're saying that its more than just sex thats important, it's the physical intimacy. But in another you're saying you don't even feel a connection with her. So what you're expecting from her is emotionally disconnected, "I just need satisfaction" sex. So I'll ask you, why is it that you WANT to have sex with someone you have no connection with? And why is it that you refuse to focus on your RELATIONSHIP and what might save it, and instead focus strictly on sex which won't save anything? Do you love this woman?

I do understand your frustrations...but the more and more I read, the more I agree that sex is WAY too high on your priority list in a relationship that has much deeper issues. And that's when I start to question your true feelings for this woman.....and if I'm questioning your feelings, I'm certain she's way ahead of me in doing the same.

[WildChild]

Some good points have been made here. I would add or re-emphasis that stomping around being PO'd won't help anything. Get it out of your system and do it quickly, get a sledge hammer and find some old concrete to break up or something and just sweat it out. Then wash it away.

Start by owning your role. Over the years you've both piled up the slights, wrongs and misunderstandings. You can't change anyone but you. You can't change her but you can change your responses. The question is what result do you want? Want to make her wrong? Want abject appologies? Want to dump all your anger and frustration on her? If that is the case you shouldn't plan on saving the relationship.

If you want to heal this and move forward, it sounds like that is possible. But you are going to have use what has been as a learning experience and then let it go so you can make changes and move forward. It does sound like the two of have come from such different directions that neither of you can see that the destination is the same. You been a bit vague as to why she is so adamant that you are sexually obsessed and that is a very subjective assessment anyway. One person's idea of a high sex drive might seem average to another. At any rate it seems that she also feels that her needs have not been met for a long time.

You each need to be able to see the other's needs and view. You can't make her see yours but you can make an effort to see her's and to respond in a way that shows her that you understand. That in turn may start to open her up. One of you has to make take first step. You could have a heck of a journey of discovery and a lot of fun doing it - with the right attitude. But you can't if you are carrying around all the anger and frustration, valid or not, it won't serve you.

Can you do it?
Can you let go of it?
You can if you decide that benefits will outweigh holding on to it.
Give it a try?

[sourpuss]

Maybe she thinks sex is the only way for me to be intimate, which isn't true. It's just the strongest.

It's sounding more and more like you are bound and determined for your wife to feel intimacy and emotional connection through sex, because that's how you feel it. You already know that that is not how she feels the connection and when that connection is missing, she does not enjoy sex. If you're going to make this work, you need to accept that and work from there. Stop digging your heals in and compromise. Your wife has already indicated that she wants to make it work, that she wants to have sex regularly, and she's communicated what she needs from you to get that spark back. If it's something you're not willing to do, or if there are conditions on trying, then you honestly should not even try and you two should split.

At first, I could see your side, and still can a bit. But the more I know about the situation, the more I can see why your wife is so withdrawn and frustrated.

[MiniVanMan]

My therapist has asked me to imagine a place of serenity to take myself to that will help me get my mind grounded and calm me down. A "happy place". I've recently come to the conclusion that my happy place isn't an imaginary location but physical touch, and at it's strongest during sexual activity. Skin to skin contact, in particular, sends me to the moon and all my troubles disappear. Even more important, though, is the fact that for me physical touch is the ultimate complement. Nothing is more flattering and intimate. A feeling of warmth washes all over me. And I instantly feel emotionally connected. Unfortunately, the feeling disappears when the physical touch stops.

She told me last night that for her often sex feels like two bags of skin and body parts mashing together with no purpose. But for me, it's the very touching itself that fills me with feelings of intimacy. It's such a simple process. Touch=intimacy. And it works instantly. It has never been a turnoff. I don't see how it could ever be.

That's why sex is so important to me. Nothing makes me feel more physically or emotionally connected. When I told her this, she reiterated that I need to work on that with my therapist. As if I needed fixing.

Maybe she thinks sex is the only way for me to be intimate, which isn't true. It's just the strongest.

[MiniVanMan]

Can you provide a search term that would help me find those stats? I'm honestly interested.

[sourpuss]

I'm sure if I used google, I could find just as many statistics that claim the opposite.