[Obelisk]

As believable as ladder theory.

Ladder Theory is simply a framework that explains men and women at the primal level.

There is a reason that for most guys, attraction simply happens if the woman is hot, but for a woman, it's a more complicated process where the guy has to display good looks, power, and has to stand out generally from other guys.

Don't think of it as something that you reason, think of it more as something that happens instinctively at the subconscious level.

Why does a guy wearing a suit raise a man's looks almost instantaneously? Ladder Theory explains it. Why does the guy being in a rock band raise his status with women? Again, Ladder Theory explains it.

I guarantee you that a single guy will be interested in a girl only on the basis that she is hot. She could be working at McDonald's and the guy won't care.

Can any women honestly tell me that if they saw a good looking guy their age, tall, buff, but working flipping burgers, that you'd have any attraction for him? However, you'd probably be more attracted to the shorter, balding guy in line if he's got a good style going, a good expensive suit, well groomed, and generally looking like he's well off.

I'm sure I'm going to get a barrage of answers saying that this is not the case. I prefer to agree with psychologists since they understand the science. They also agree that penis size, as long as to the woman looks bigger than average, it will turn her on more visually.

When it comes to "love" again psychologists understand what's that's about as well, but I won't get too much into that.

[Stillness]

If you knew the science on love you'd know it's more primal and powerful than just about any other motivator. It's definitely more powerful than the sex drive. People will kill, live, and die for it. If a woman rejects your sexual advances you don't spiral into a deep depression or kill yourself. You just move on. If the person you love tells you to jump off a bridge, you might. A person's entire world is colored by a person when they're in love with them. Every culture that has left any substantial evidence of itself has written, sung, and created art centered on love.

Part of what happens is that you become attached and the object of your attachment and anything they contact take on special meaning. So people like a smell because it smells like their lover. Food prepared by them tastes better. Their idiosyncrasies become cute. We have a saying in my culture that "you love their dirty drawers." That would certainly apply to one's penis and any feelings or sensations that a woman would get from it.

Again, this is not some sort of Disney fairytale type of experience. It's observable in scans of the brain and measurements of chemical levels in the body. In fact, it affects multiple regions of the brain, most notably the motor of the mind. Some researches say love is not even an emotion, but is a drive. Any ideology that discounts it is demonstrably wrong. And more than that, it reflects being out of touch with the human experience on a basic level. It will lead you to fail.

[Obelisk]

Some researches say love is not even an emotion, but is a drive

Ok I think I mentioned this before, but I'll give you my take on it:

Love is simply that emotion a person gets when they find someone that fills whatever physical or emotional needs that person might have. If the love is mutual, then that means both parties have found a way to fill each other's needs.

In the end it's still just a chemical reaction though. Think about all the threads you see here of men and women "in love" with the wrong person. They created an idea in their minds that the person of their desire is the one that can love them, and it's not being reciprocated the way they wish it were. I could have fallen into this. It's really hard to have a really hot woman that you "know" is wrong for you but you are taken by her beauty and you want to fight to keep that. I had that happen with me with the previous girl, but I put my foot down and cut a relationship that was detrimental to me. I couldn't have done that without understanding what I was going thru from a scientific perspective.

Actually, the first girl I ever dated. She really liked me. After a couple of dates I brought up the kids issue. She wanted, I didn't. I almost caved in and yes that's fine we can have kids, because I really liked her a lot. Probably the hardest thing for me to do, but I had to turn back and I'm not sorry I did. I have to do the same with my current girl. Same issue, except I've slept with her. That makes it so much harder for women to let go. To me it's all chemicals man, everything we feel is just a cocktail of drugs wreaking havoc on us.

[kira]

A popular dating site found that men wearing suits got the least responses from women. They were more likely to go for decent but casual clothing. Personally I'll take a guy in a tight pair of jeans and tshirt or casual button up shirt. A guy in a suit would be a turn off. I'd figure him for being too uptight. I don't care if he has more money than the guy in the jeans. Actually a guy who works outside doing construction, training animals like horses (I own 4 horses), or whatever living paycheck to paycheck would be a bigger turn on than the guy making 6 figures in a suit in a big office.

However I ended up with a computer geek who works in an office making 60k and is a little overweight. It just happened and at the time he was making half that. It's 4 years later he got a new job. We met online, we complained about our current bf/gf for a few months, he helped me do computer programming homework, we broke up with our bf/gf (not at the same time but eventually) and suddenly his stuff started appearing in my house and I was cleaning out a drawer for him so he could go straight from my place to work. It wasn't his penis, it wasn't his body, it wasn't his clothing, it wasn't his job... It was the fact we thought the same. Most of the time when I bring something up he's already considered it himself. I wanted an equal mentally and emotionally and found it. The same goals, the same overall opinions, the same sense of humor... We just fit. And that 8" penis is attached to a guy that I smashed face first in to a wall and hope to never hear from again. Don't miss it or him in the least. That relationship was toxic and the sex sucked.

[Obelisk]

I never said suits specifically where the only thing that attracts women. Anyway I'm not going to go about it because really it's pointless. Let's just leave it at this:

1. Women bump into large penises all the time but don't enjoy them. They prefer 5-6" and even if it was 3-4" it would be the same to them as an 8-9", they are "penis blind".

2. Women don't care what the guy looks like as long as he's an emotional equal. He could look like he got hit by a shovel square in the face, but as long as his personality gels with the girl, it's all good.

3. Women don't care how much the guy makes. It's his personality that counts.

4. Women loooove confident men, even if the guy is 5'2, not really that attractive, has, if he's lucky, 4" penis, and doesn't really have anything going for himself. As long as he oozes with confidence, he will have women crawling up to him, wishing that he'd pick them as their wife for life.

5. Any other feelings that women have that don't conform to these axioms, can be safely labeled as a "fantasy" that is not expected in real life. If she dreams of her bf being 6'4, it's a fantasy. If she dreams of feeling what a 9" penis feels like, it's a "fantasy".


Thanks for clearing it up for me. Let me go grab some twinkies before they are all gone, and wait for my woman to show up

[HisGirl]

Obelisk, This is a womens forum. It's a place where women should be able to speak their minds and express their opinions without worrying that someone is going to twist their comments. What you're saying here is hurtful and mean. Im sorry you feel the way you do and I hope you find what you want in life, but making fun and being sarcastic towards what some of us are saying just because you don't agree is not right.

[rcoreyus]

Actually any comment that begins with "women think", or "men want" is wrong. There are BILLIONS of men and women - they want and like all sorts of different things. I'm sure that penis size is very important to some women, not at all to others. Same for money, confidence, hair color, height, muscles, musical talent etc etc etc.

The trick is to find out of those billions of women (most of whom you will never meet) the ones that are attracted to YOU. Out of those millions (or maybe many more) find the ones that you are attracted to yourself. Then get together and be happy.

You don't need most women to love you - you just need one.

Many women would not find me ideal. That's fine, I'm not trying to win a global "hottest guy on earth" contest. My wife DOES like to be with me and finds me attractive. There are many women whom I do not find attractive - also fine, I'm not a gigolo who needs to be happy having sex with every female on earth. I'm am very attracted to my wife, we get along great, I love being with her. We are happy, and don't care where either of us rate on someone else's scoring system.

[Stillness]

To me it's all chemicals man, everything we feel is just a cocktail of drugs wreaking havoc on us.

When you say "wreaking havoc," it implies that our bodies don't work well. That's a negative judgment not based in logic. And saying it's all chemicals doesn't make it less real. What's not chemicals? Your desire to have a larger penis can be translated to chemicals. Is that not a legitimate feeling?

I've also been meaning to tell you this: Let's say I have an idea that all birds fly. In evidence I point to seagulls, sparrows and hummingbirds. In protest, you bring up ostriches, emus, and kiwi birds. I could accept your point or I could say that those flightless birds aren't really birds. The latter would be fallacious reasoning. It would be motivated by confirmation bias. It's when a person has a theory that they want to believe or that offers them some degree of comfort and then they disregard information that disproves it and subjectively interpret other information to favor their belief.

You exhibit heavy confirmation bias in your reasoning. When people express experiences and sentiments that contradict your ideas you mock them, say they're dishonest, ignore them, or relegate them to the minority. You pick out comments and information that you think confirm your ideas and even when the really don't you twist them to make it appear that they do. Everything somehow is related to and supports your theory.

[Obelisk]

Obelisk, This is a womens forum. It's a place where women should be able to speak their minds and express their opinions without worrying that someone is going to twist their comments. What you're saying here is hurtful and mean. Im sorry you feel the way you do and I hope you find what you want in life, but making fun and being sarcastic towards what some of us are saying just because you don't agree is not right.

Sorry I was just annoyed at how everyone pops in with an anecdote that's supposed to prove to me the theories I believe in are all wrong. Clearly if you were annoyed by my comment then there is some truth to what I have been saying all along.

Actually any comment that begins with "women think", or "men want" is wrong. There are BILLIONS of men and women - they want and like all sorts of different things. I'm sure that penis size is very important to some women, not at all to others. Same for money, confidence, hair color, height, muscles, musical talent etc etc etc.

Theoretically I agree with you.

The trick is to find out of those billions of women (most of whom you will never meet) the ones that are attracted to YOU. Out of those millions (or maybe many more) find the ones that you are attracted to yourself. Then get together and be happy.

If you had any idea how colossal this task seems to me right now, you'd understand why I feel the way I do. I'm almost ready to give up.

When you say "wreaking havoc," it implies that our bodies don't work well

Well the right thing to say was "wreaking havoc on me"

And saying it's all chemicals doesn't make it less real. What's not chemicals? Your desire to have a larger penis can be translated to chemicals. Is that not a legitimate feeling?

You're absolutely right.

I've also been meaning to tell you this: Let's say I have an idea that all birds fly. In evidence I point to seagulls, sparrows and hummingbirds. In protest, you bring up ostriches, emus, and kiwi birds. I could accept your point or I could say that those flightless birds aren't really birds. The latter would be fallacious reasoning. It would be motivated by confirmation bias.

You're absolutely right. Good catch. I see your point.

You exhibit heavy confirmation bias in your reasoning. When people express experiences and sentiments that contradict your ideas you mock them, say they're dishonest, ignore them, or relegate them to the minority. You pick out comments and information that you think confirm your ideas and even when the really don't you twist them to make it appear that they do. Everything somehow is related to and supports your theory.

I don't think people are being dishonest. I think there's a level of honestly, and maybe some genuine denial from some. It's just that the comments I'm seeing here do not gel with the reality I've been confronted with on the outside world. Perhaps I just haven't been blessed to be with the right people, or to meet the right women. but that's the crux of the argument in the end isn't it? There is absolutely no way for me to know who is the "right" one for me, unless I keep on getting hit in the head with the frustration of keeping on searching. I guess we all have to do that though. Life can really suck

[rcoreyus]

Ok, lets try a different approach. Obelisk - where and how do you meet women. Maybe your experience is different from some of ours because you are meeting different women in different situations.